Moeller video?

[Ratamatatt]

Early on in this thread someone posted an excellent link to a comprehensive review, history, explanation of the Moeller method including numerous video clips demonstrating multiple aspects of the Moeller method. I strongly urge all to read the entire site and view all of the clips. Be sure to note that, at the end, he invites you to continue to the drumset application part of the site, which contains some duplication, but is also well worth the time and effort:

http://www.digbydoodle.com/Moeller/vintage.htm

[Magnus]

Early on in this thread someone posted an excellent link to a comprehensive review, history, explanation of the Moeller method including numerous video clips demonstrating multiple aspects of the Moeller method. I strongly urge all to read the entire site and view all of the clips. Be sure to note that, at the end, he invites you to continue to the drumset application part of the site, which contains some duplication, but is also well worth the time and effort:

http://www.digbydoodle.com/Moeller/vintage.htm

Hi,

Fantastic! I've just spent an hour or 2 reading, watching, downloading and generally mulling over the wealth on information on that site. Surely, I had missed the original pointer to it, so many many thanks for bringing ut up again.

Thanks, too, to whoever brought this link to the forum's attention originally.

I also downloaded the free e-book that's available on the author's website.

All the best,

Magnus

[Ratamatatt]

What do you think of this guy's "reverse" finger technique? Pretty neat, no!

[Magnus]

What do you think of this guy's "reverse" finger technique? Pretty neat, no!

Yes that finger technique is amazing. I love his way of casually mentioning that the thumb-2nd finger grip (i.e. the usual, non-Moeller grip) will only enable the stick to be manipulated from below, while the Moeller (little finger) grip will enable manipulation from above. It's so self evident, and gives great incentive for learning the Moeller grip.

In fact, I think the content on his web pages is actually sufficient for successful Moeller self studies, at least if you've got the Moeller book. I do hope so, since finding a Moeller teacher in Stockholm, Sweden, doesn't seem easy.

I am particularly impressed by the lucidity of his explanations of, a) the Moeller grip, b) the whip, and mostly, c) the upstroke. That's all brilliantly elucidated, in text and picture.

I have e-mailed the author and asked him about his thoughts on Dom Famularo's propagation of the Free Stroke as a preparation for Moeller technique. To me, this just doesn't make sense, since the Free Stroke isolates all stroke producing movement to the wrist, whereas the very core of the Moeller technique - as I understand it - seems to be to distribute stroke production over many muscle groups, i.e. not just the wrist (or any other single body part). (I feel paricularly sceptical regarding the Free Stroke, as I have been pracitising it daily since late December - with the result that I have now developed a mildly inflamed right wrist!) To me, the attraction of Moeller is primarily ergonomical.

He hasn't replied yet, though. Anyone else care to comment?

All the best,

Magnus

[Seb]

I feel paricularly sceptical regarding the Free Stroke, as I have been pracitising it daily since late December - with the result that I have now developed a mildly inflamed right wrist.

Sorry to hear tha, but it's definitely not the fault of the Free Stroke. Without a a, it can be harmful to try and practice certain techniques obsessively. Seems like you did something wrong in terms of finger tension. It should feel free, no tension at all, just don't let the sticks drop! Have fun!

[Magnus]

... Without a a, it can be harmful to try and practice certain techniques obsessively. Seems like you did something wrong in terms of finger tension. It should feel free, no tension at all, just don't let the sticks drop! ...

Hi,

I think it may have to do with the fact that I have a bit of a mouse arm/wrist problem in my right arm. (I'm a translator and work with a computer daily. I try not to use the mouse more than absolutely necessary.) So I may be physically predisposed against the Free Stroke.

I don't think I was practising the Free Stroke obsessively, though. I gave it about 20 minutes daily. Then, when I increased it somewhat during a one week period I started feeling something in my right hand/arm...

More interestingly, however, is why Dom Famularo propagates the Free Stroke as a preparation for Moeller technique. I cannot really see the connection between the two, so if someone could explain that to me I'd be very grateful.

Magnus

[Ratamatatt]

Yes that finger technique is amazing. I love his way of casually mentioning that the thumb-2nd finger grip (i.e. the usual, non-Moeller grip) will only enable the stick to be manipulated from below, while the Moeller (little finger) grip will enable manipulation from above. It's so self evident, and gives great incentive for learning the Moeller grip.

In fact, I think the content on his web pages is actually sufficient for successful Moeller self studies, at least if you've got the Moeller book. I do hope so, since finding a Moeller teacher in Stockholm, Sweden, doesn't seem easy.

I am particularly impressed by the lucidity of his explanations of, a) the Moeller grip, b) the whip, and mostly, c) the upstroke. That's all brilliantly elucidated, in text and picture.

I have e-mailed the author and asked him about his thoughts on Dom Famularo's propagation of the Free Stroke as a preparation for Moeller technique. To me, this just doesn't make sense, since the Free Stroke isolates all stroke producing movement to the wrist, whereas the very core of the Moeller technique - as I understand it - seems to be to distribute stroke production over many muscle groups, i.e. not just the wrist (or any other single body part). (I feel paricularly sceptical regarding the Free Stroke, as I have been pracitising it daily since late December - with the result that I have now developed a mildly inflamed right wrist!) To me, the attraction of Moeller is primarily ergonomical.

He hasn't replied yet, though. Anyone else care to comment?

All the best,

Magnus

Lets take a closer look at your delema. The "Gladstone" method (named after famous snare drummer/percussionist Billy Gladstone, and described by Famularo as the "Freestroke"), is essential to learn BEFORE you try to tackle the Moeller method. The Gladstone method is an integral part of the Moeller method.

Gladstone advocates completely eliminating all muscle tension in the fingers, hands and wrist, and amounts to throwing the stick down with your wrist and keeping your muscles so completely tension free that the stick freely rebounds back up, uninhibited, without using the wrist. In other words, with Gladstone, there is no upstroke, only downstroke and rebound. It is analogous to bouncing a basketball - you push the ball down and it bounces back up by itself. The faster you want to go, the closer to the ground you position your hand, and the lower you allow the ball to bounce up. The same principle applies to playing fast with the Gladstone method. If you are injuring yourself with this method, I suspect you are doing something wrong.

A great lesson on the Gladstone method is the 3 part lesson called "Building Monster Chops" found here: http://www.tigerbill.com/drumlessons.htm. Print up the lessons and read over them several times. There are also some great video clip demonstrations on that page as well.

The Moeller method comes into play when you are looking to create an accented stroke - you raise your entire arm and whip the the stick into the drum and, in between the "whip" stroke, you play "tap" strokes - with the Gladstone method. Because of the impact created by the Moeller stroke, it is more difficult to hold on to the stick with a typical thumb and forefinger grip. Therefore, most Moeller practitioners use a middle finger or even pinky/ringfinger grip, which are much looser grips and allow the stick to move in the hand without breaking loose and being dropped.

A great lesson on the Moeller method is Jim Chapin's video "Speed, Power, Control, Endurance."

[ferguson]

The free stroke or upstroke is primarily used to break tension and at the same time make an accent. You probably all ready do something like it when you play 16 notes on the high hat in a funk style, accenting every other note. Now go to the snare, make some light taps in time, on every third beat begin your upstoke, lead with the break in the wrist, think of it as a preparation motion for the accent. If you were a puppet think of a string being attached to your wrist and it pulling your wrist up at the joint to your arm, then continue the motion by coming back down and turning your wrist at the same time, this is all relaxed, you hold the stick just tight enough so it does not fly out of your hand. Also you must play in an overhand or half turned over position not thumb nail parallel to the floor or French-timpani style grip. Moellers book is old, we don't really play the way he did yet we use the basic priciple, also you will get tremendous benefit if you do not flare your elbows at the time of the motion, let the elbows follow your wrist, so don't flare your arms out to the side, you are not a bird. Hope this helps a little. If you are in pain stop for a day, take a break. Let the body heal and remember this motion removes tension it should not add.

[Magnus]

... A great lesson on the Gladstone method is the 3 part lesson called "Building Monster Chops" found here: http://www.tigerbill.com/drumlessons.htm. Print up the lessons and read over them several times. There are also some great video clip demonstrations on that page as well....

Thanks for the little "history of the Free Stroke" and the great explanation on it's relevance for the Moeller technique. I wasn't aware of the Gladstone method.

The Tiger Bill lessons on Gladstone seem great, I will read them through. However, I didn't find any video clips on that page, only photos.

Perhaps I am doing something wrong when throwing the stick with my right hand. The Chapin video was discussed in depth earlier on in this thread. Since I don't have a tv, I will have to wait for it to be reissued on dvd...

Magnus

[Magnus]

... You probably all ready do something like it when you play 16 notes on the high hat in a funk style, accenting every other note. Now go to the snare, make some light taps in time, on every third beat begin your upstoke, lead with the break in the wrist, think of it as a preparation motion for the accent. ...

... If you are in pain stop for a day, take a break. Let the body heal and remember this motion removes tension it should not add.

I like your funk hi-hat analogy, it's very easy to understand.

I will let my right arm rest for a few days now, much as I hate it. I am not experiencing severe pain, it's just that ordinarily I don't "feel" my arms at all, and now my right arm is tingling...

Magnus