Cymbal Facts, Theories, and Myths #8

[drumaholic]

The 2 points of view to consider:

The cymbal itself is most important in determining the overall sound. Although the player's touch, his choice of sticks, and other factors may color the sound to a certain degree, its the sound qualities of the cymbal itself that ultimately determines the sound as it is delivered to the listener.


The sound qualities that a cymbal possesses are only of minor importance. A truly artistic drummer can make any cymbal sound great, so the most important factor in determining the sound as it's delivered to the listener is the player's touch.

[jabez]

Hmmm... I'll take the 3rd point of view not offered:

There is not one single most important factor in determining the sound.

[Ptrick]

I fall somewhere in between the two, closer to the cymbal itself camp. I can see valid points in both camps. I think a good (or great) cymbal is just that...a great cymbal. Someone with no technique may make it sound displeasing in how they play it, but the sounds the cymbal can create are nonetheless still beautiful. Under the hand of a master, these cymbals can add to the bliss of a great performance, and allow greater expression by the artist. The right tools for the job.

I hear a lot about guys saying 'it's the player' almost no matter what, and I personally strongly disagree with that. A bad cymbal may sound passable under a trained hand, and with the music playing and all the variables that come into acoustics (moreso in a live situation), I could see many cymbals not necessarily sounding 'bad' to the average listener. But not GOOD. There are recorded examples of bad cymbals by our "masters" such as Elvin's sound on Larry Young's "Unity". Great playing by all...phenomenal...but the cymbals come accross as pure poison to my ears. Could be the recording technique or the cymbal, a little bit of both. Either way, Elvin in my opinion didn't make those cymbals sing. A video of Tony with Miles playing what looks to be a Premier cymbal sounds like crap no matter how Tony is playing it.

There is more potential in a good cymbal for all sorts of sounds. A 'bad' cymbal is limited in it's scope and ability. No player will make a ZBT crash like an old K or 602.

[zenstat]

Man, this is a tough question. Part of the question's complexity lies in the use of the term "most important". Does "most important" mean "50.001% of the variation in sound"... 90%...75% ?? But wait, there's more...

It's like asking "is gender the most important predictor of a person's salary?". The answer is "maybe gender is most important within some job categories but not in others". Being a brain surgeon pays more than flipping burgers at McDonalds no matter what gender you are (although interestingly both have to do with the maipulation of meat ).

Maybe the physical characteristic of a cymbal is "most important" if the cymbal is a zbt and you are comparing the sound perceived by the listener to that of a Fo602 medium flat ride. Maybe the player's touch is "most important" if you are comparing two old k cymbals. So the whole answer is context dependent so far as I am concerned. It depends on the variation in physical cymbal characteristics you are considering. On the other hand, you can ask the question the other way around: can a player with a really good technique make a zbt sound better than a player with little technique. And can a player with a really good technique make a Fo602 medium flat ride sound better than a player with little technique. And ask yourself the same question for an old k as a thought experiment.

Just my as a statistician often charged with turning questions like this into actionable research designs.

Anyway, this gives me something to do while I wait a few more minutes for Patrick to reveal what his 22" cymbal is...

[trashman]

I voted for "the cymbal, itself...".

I do strongly believe that a player's touch is incredibly important in determining the specific, guided sounds that come from a cymbal.
I also strongly believe that the right player can make a given cymbal sound its possible best...

...but I don't believe that all instruments are created equally, and that they all provide an equal starting point.
Not at all.

Having said that, I believe that the music is all in the player.
While some instruments might inspire the player to play a certain way, the instrument isn't going to make sense of itself... isn't going to validate istself... isn't going to give itself meaning.

[ozbeat]

Confucious say: "You can't polish a turd".

Well, not too much anyway. And believe me, when it comes to recordings, I've spent WEEKS of time doing just that. Individually cutting up syllables and pitch correcting each one to comp up a decent lead vocal. In the end it sounds good - that is, until a good singer comes in a breezes thru a song in one take and then you say to yourself "I should have just told them to find a singer that can actually sing, but has less attractive features . . . "

Everyone has seen a great player make crap gear sound great. Like Gene Krupa soloing on a box of matches? But it's all a compromise. I've recorded amazing players with crappy sounding kits and the first thing I learnt to do was to call a hire shop and then have coffee.

[JayCam]

I said the cymbal but the players touch is very important.. buy as Oz said, you cant polish a turd. Between a good cymbal and a bad one its the pie, between two good cymbals its the touch. I think we are talking about good quality instruments here so leaving out ZBTs and all that jazz.

J.

[RaBe]

The cymbal is the most important in determining the sound heard by the listener. No performer, however masterful, can make one instrument sound like another. Now how meaningful is that?

IMO the listener never perceives an isolated cymbal sound but always a performance of which it is a part (with the possible exception of cymbalholics and the likes and cymbal presentations that are intently devoid of expression like on manufacturer's web sites). It is the artistic performance that gives the sound a meaning, not the other way round (A fool with a tool...).

Imagine [Your FavoriteDrummer] playing [Your FavoriteCymbal] and [TheUltimateTurd]. Even though s/he is a master performer, [Your FavoriteDrummer] will not be able to make one sound like the other, not even to a non-expert. Instead s/he will make both sound like him/her. And the bad performer will do just the same!

[FELLROD]

To me, cymbal wash is what the music floats on. Cymbal sound is the color, the smell, the flaver, the ambiance of the music. No matter how good the player, a crappy cymbal makes the music smell bad.

[laotzu]

Let's ask Victor Lewis what he thinks:
"I'll never forget the time I was playing in Italy and Ed Blackwell was playing with Don Cherry. He didn't have his drums or cymbals. The cymbal company was suppossed to have furnished them, but there was some problem. So I said, 'Ed Blackwell needs some cymbals? Here man, take mine!' I took them out and spread them around, but he only looked at them. He said, 'I like the way this one looks, and that one...' I was stunned. So he took the cymbals, set them up, and on the downbeat it was Ed Blackwell to the max! When your musicality and your personality are that strong, they can transcend the equipment." (Modern Drummer, 6/92, p. 30)

How about Joey Baron (Early owner of Spizzichino cymbals):
"When I travel on the road, 98% of the time i don't carry any cymbals, so I wind up playing a different set every day. Sometimes I'm given a choice; sometimes it's just a matter of 'this is what we have.' But I generally tape up the ride cymbal specifically so that it doesn't ring... This has become a 'signature' sound for me - which I can create on almost any cymbal just through the use of tape." (Modern Drummer, 8/97, p. 28)

Clarence Penn talks about having to learn to play his old K:
"I played it on Betty's (Carter) gig and she said 'I hate that cymbal.' I didn't know how to play it. I was used to playing a thicker cymbal, so I was playing the K too hard. But learning to play it helped me hone my cymbal technique, so now it's easier for me to play any cymbal." (Modern Drummer, 9/04, p. 65)

If the physical matter that we make music on is the predominant factor in the music, then simply owning the best instrument possible (if this is empirically determinable, which i submit it isn't) should allow us to be that much better. This is simply not the case.

We have to learn to play our instruments, and when we've done it for a while we start to get past all the technical exercises and hot licks we've used as our stepping stones and we form - maybe better to say 'find' - our own personality. It may not be as strong or audaciously unique as Tony's or Elvin's, but it is our own and it is out there waiting to be discovered. It takes time and dedication, sweat, devotion and hard work. But once we're in possession of it, the instrument we play on - whatever it's limitations - is mere conduit.

Most sincerely,
Dan P.