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  1. #11
    SENIOR "HOLIC jazzdrummer8's Avatar
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    Side-by-side, I agree that the MTL is lower. It just seemed really low on the gig, and it sounded deeper on the recording. That could really be a function of mic placement. In that link I provided, all is equal except for the cymbal.

    I'll hang on to it for the situations where a 22" is the answer.

    I think your 22" Agop will be perfect for small combo.

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  3. #12
    JDA LEVEL 'HOLIC jda's Avatar
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    Flash! I have a new saying!

    " Weight changes the Highs at the Bottom. Profile changes the Highs at the Top"
    what do you think? Can I market it?
    Or should I just shut up. okI will.
    .................................................. .................................................. .....Joe

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  5. #13
    Super Moderator zenstat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jda View Post
    Flash! I have a new saying!

    " Weight changes the Highs at the Bottom. Profile changes the Highs at the Top"
    what do you think? Can I market it?
    Or should I just shut up. okI will.
    Bell morphology? Remember when it was all about bell diameter, bell height, slope of bell, bell bow transition?

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdrummer8 View Post
    Side-by-side, I agree that the MTL is lower.
    Since you have one of each in your hands, what happens when you place one over the other and compare the bells? Does the bell of one next exactly in the bell of the other? And can you pickup the difference in curvature of the bow by putting one on top and then the other? That's a way to spot differences in curvature, especially towards the outer edge.
    Last edited by zenstat; 06-07-2018 at 01:53 PM.
    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact" (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

    Which K Stamp is this? A DIY tool click here
    Old K prices and weights click here
    Avedis Zildjian Gallery and Timeline click here
    Old A prices and weights click here
    Paiste 602/Sound Creation prices click here

  6. #14
    JDA LEVEL 'HOLIC jda's Avatar
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    "And then.... there's the little matter of Octaves....."
    .................................................. .................................................. .....Joe

  7. #15
    SENIOR "HOLIC jazzdrummer8's Avatar
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    The cups look the same. The MTL is flatter. When I set the Light on the MTL, its edges curve away (first pic). When the MTL is on the Light, the contact point is the edge (second pic).






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  9. #16
    Super Moderator zenstat's Avatar
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    Great example of the Light having more downward curve at the edge than the MTL. It's also clear that the hammering goes closer to the edge of the Light which ought to trash it up a bit if I've taken on board what my cymbal making friends tell me.

    I think that's worth an extra gold star for documentation beyond the call of duty.

    I presume they use the same bell die because the pits (which are part of the die) are the same. You have to rotate the cymbals to pit congruence (possible first mention of Procrustes Analysis in a drum forum) in your mind's eye to see it. Actually, I probably did mention Procrustes some years back because somebody did some to show the pits lining up. Now where did I put that?
    Last edited by zenstat; 06-07-2018 at 04:18 PM.
    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact" (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

    Which K Stamp is this? A DIY tool click here
    Old K prices and weights click here
    Avedis Zildjian Gallery and Timeline click here
    Old A prices and weights click here
    Paiste 602/Sound Creation prices click here

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  11. #17
    JDA LEVEL 'HOLIC jda's Avatar
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    " which ones of rides/cymbals..over a lifetime ..........do-- "quieter" --------- better/best/well* keep!" * contained can articulate on.
    don't want something talking back more than what you're saying to it..: )
    Last edited by jda; 06-07-2018 at 04:58 PM.
    .................................................. .................................................. .....Joe

  12. #18
    SENIOR "HOLIC jazzdrummer8's Avatar
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    The side-by-side makes it look like my MTL has gotten more playing time. Thatís a 2012 cymbal hitting more clubs, bars, restaurants, and thunderstorms than a 1999 pie. Maybe I should keep my oil and memories....

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  14. #19
    SENIOR "HOLIC TPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jda View Post
    "And then.... there's the little matter of Octaves....."
    And inaudible frequencies. One may have A LOT more highs (or lows) above (or beneath) the audible range. Perception is reality.

  15. #20
    SENIOR "HOLIC jazzdrummer8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jda View Post
    " which ones of rides/cymbals..over a lifetime ..........do-- "quieter" --------- better/best/well* keep!" * contained can articulate on.
    don't want something talking back more than what you're saying to it..: )
    That's a great point. I guess I don't know at this stage. I know the nuances of the MTL. It opens up extremely well with brushes. Those edges wobble with ease, which is nice in a lot of quieter situations. The challenge is accounting for the fact that "what I say to it" has been calibrated over the years based on how it responds. You can't speak to every cymbal in the same manner.
    Last edited by jazzdrummer8; 06-07-2018 at 08:51 PM.

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