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  1. #1
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    Paiste Proto Bottom Hat 16" (602ME?)


  2. #2
    Super Moderator zenstat's Avatar
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    I don't do Facebook so I don't know the evidence which was cited to suggest that is a 602 ME prototype. I don't see it that way, and I've seen some questionable identifications coming from Facebook discussions before so I'm interested in this id. Over the past month or two I've been working on a project to document the different prototype cymbals which are out there in the hope that we can come to a better understanding of how to tell the prototypes apart.

    Paiste Prototypes Thread

    Your prototype cymbal has lathing which is consistent with the Masters series. The 602 ME series have fine tonal groove lathing (which they share with the flat rides and sound edge hats in the current 602 classic series). The cymbal you have has fine tonal groove lathing but with the overlay of final lathing pass which is a bit uneven in the distance between the grooves. That's Masters style not 602 ME style. The final lathing pass which produces a "record groove" is called pin lathing when it is really fine, but I'm not sure what to call it when the groove is wider than a pin. The "record groove" wanders a bit (the distance between adjacent grooves varies from place to place) and that harks back to the Signature and Traditionals style lathing as well. But the 602 ME is a different style.

    There are pits in the surface of your prototype cymbal which show a bit of oven crust on both the top and the bottom sides. The depth of hammering means that the oven crust is left in the bottoms. That's Masters style not 602 ME style. The 602 ME cymbals don't have those sort of pits. The 602 ME cymbals have no visible hammering on the bell. The hammering on the bow of the 602 ME cymbals is more dense than the Masters and done with a more consistent depths and a smaller hammer face. The Masters have more variability in the hammering, with the deepest of them leaving that crust in the bottom.

    Of course prototypes being prototypes they don't have to combine attributes in exactly the same way as production models. But a glance at yours tells me immediately it is closest to the Masters in terms of hammering and lathing. So I'd love to know what kind of evidence the Facebookers came up with. I might have missed something they know about which will help in my research. I can annotate photos to illustrate the hammering and lathing details I've discussed, but I'm hoping that my words plus the Paiste Prototypes Thread will be enough.

    And last but also related, I've seen an unlathed bell on the underside of the bottom hat of 14" 602 ME hats.



    For those who have hands on experience with production ME hats, can you please let me know if both the top and bottom hats have unlathed bells like that? And is it also true of the 15" size? I haven't got any 602 ME cymbals I can peer at near me at the moment so I'm limited to photos I can see on the web. Most of those photos just show the upper side of the hats.
    Last edited by zenstat; 05-29-2018 at 03:25 PM. Reason: pic added
    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact" (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

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  3. #3
    SENIOR "HOLIC jbl's Avatar
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    My fifteens had unlathed inside bells, both

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    zenstat (05-29-2018)

  5. #4
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    I don't know Paiste that well to clarify or not, which is why I included the disclaimer, it was based on fb feedback.

    I used it for 1 year with a pre-sn 602 thin crash as a top..worked very nice. Sold off the 602, now using with a masterwork Jazzmaster thin crash..Evenly sweet.

    I will probably keep the proto if no bites within the next few days...glad to read, Zen, that it looks more like a Masters..

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