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  1. #11
    NEW 'HOLIC
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    Dear Members, Gentlemen.

    I bought this 22" old stamp and a 20" old stamp cymbal from VeeJay in the same time.

    Based on the videos I found these 2 rides match great with each other so I decided to make an offer for both.
    I intended to play them together.

    I agree VeeJay gave me a great opportunity to buy 2 fantastic cymbals on a very fair price.
    I could not afford paying more than a certain amount for the 2 cymbals.

    Receiving them I found that both sound very good, but they do not really match with each other the way I expected.
    Also, after a few concerts I had the impression that the 22" doesn't really match with my other old stamp rides either.

    That is the reason I finally decided to sell the 22" even if I think she is a great sounding ride.

    The 20” old stamp sounds making a great contrast to my other old stamps rides I play on.

    On the other hand, previously I sold a 22" old stamp cymbal for 3700 EUR (=4200 USD).
    I think it must be the top of the price range most 22" old stamp rides are sold for.
    Therefore, I decided to test the maket and list the 22” on this initial price and wait how close offers I can get.

    I am a musician too and not a businessman or a collector, but currently I cannot afford selling the 22" under the market price, which is the highest bid in my understanding.

  2. #12
    JDA LEVEL 'HOLIC jda's Avatar
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    Play that cymbal along with a Track Kalmarz. the 2348g type iv 22'.
    any swing track I want/like to/ hear it in (a) context.
    (turn the music Up..
    Want to hear how it'd sound underneath a band/ Thanks

    (not Mustang Sally. anything but Mustang Sally..

    And... full drum set please/ Thanks/
    .................................................. ...........................................Joe

  3. #13
    'HOLIC hardbat's Avatar
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    The market in Hungary must be very different than in the U.S., because I've never seen a single cymbal priced at 4200 USD, ever. Are you sure you don't have your EUR-USD conversion backwards? (even so, I've never seen a cymbal priced at 3000 either, except that 24" old K at Maxwell's).

  4. #14
    Super Moderator zenstat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardbat View Post
    ...I've never seen a single cymbal priced at 4200 USD, ever. ...I've never seen a cymbal priced at 3000 either, except that 24" old K at Maxwell's).
    Here's one from my records which had an asking price of $4480:

    http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/sh...t-15-quot-too)

    But as we know, asking isn't getting. Higher prices go to 22" Old Stamps. As far as asking prices over $3000, I've got about 5 (other than the one in this thread). Asking prices at $3000 (neither a dollar more nor a dollar less) an old stamp was on offer in May 2016 but didn't get any nibbles. The record price goes to an old stamp which went for $3850 in Dec 2013. Closely followed by $2900 to Drumaholic (Bill Hartrick) for an Old Stamp IVa in July 2013.

    The price distribution goes:

    Last edited by zenstat; 02-06-2018 at 11:46 PM.
    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact" (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

    Which K Stamp is this? A DIY tool click here
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    Avedis Zildjian Gallery and Timeline click here
    Old A prices and weights click here
    Paiste 602/Sound Creation prices click here

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  6. #15
    JDA LEVEL 'HOLIC jda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jda View Post
    Play that cymbal along with a Track Kalmarz. the 2348g type iv 22'.
    any swing track I want/like to/ hear it in (a) context.
    (turn the music Up..
    Want to hear how it'd sound underneath a band/ Thanks

    (not Mustang Sally. anything but Mustang Sally..

    And... full drum set please/ Thanks/
    Reiterate. Thxs.
    .................................................. ...........................................Joe

  7. #16
    'HOLIC ddgretsch's Avatar
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    No harm in asking. It will be interesting to see what happens with these as well…

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/332546507630?ul_noapp=true

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/183059929612?ul_noapp=true

  8. #17
    SENIOR "HOLIC Poetman's Avatar
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    I’m going to step out on a limb and offer some serious reflection.

    Everyone understands that once you own an object you can do whatever you please with it—including trying to flip it for an exorbitant price. The tremendous resistance you’re noticing though is not because of this effort on your behalf but because of the community toward which your effort is directed: the Holic community. There is a pretty clear code of conduct that runs through Western Civilization, which states that we try to protect and benefit our own tribes. When we score a great deal on drum gear through a fellow Holic, implicit expectations remain that 1) we will not exploit a member’s graciousness and 2) we will return that good-favor toward other members of our community. When you try to make $1500 on the very community that helped you acquire the object for a discount in the first place, you bite the hand that feeds you and make others feel as though you’re trying to take advantage of our collective desire to help one another out.

    If I understand Veejay correctly, part of his frustration comes from the fact that he lowered his price to help you and you’re now exploiting his kindness by seeking to profit off the Holic community by so significantly increasing your selling price. The help and communal sympathy he offered you, you now refuse to return. No one is questioning why you want to sell the cymbal—this website exists because we all excessively (and irrationally) buy and sell cymbals. The offense occurred when you received kindness from another member and then tried to exploit it.

    Most for-sale ads on the forum always says something to the effect of: here’s my “Holic price” first before I send this to the masses for a greater profit. The issue is less about money than how you’re treating the community.

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  10. #18
    SENIOR "HOLIC
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    Poetman

    Thanks for taking time to articlate my thoughts on this very well, saving me the time and effort. You were spot on in your observation and my thoughts and actions
    and willingness to do a good turn for a forumite, player and lover of cymbals.

    That said, I would now also would like to take a moment to apologize to the “seller” for innacurately claiming he listed his cymbal $1500 more than he paid.

    After checking my records, it is actually $1900 more....


    From here, I will simply use his words, not mine, to describe “him” better than I can...


    “I am an active jazz drummer who buys sometimes a cymbal (after selling his cymbal) solely to play them, searching for different beautiful sounds.

    I am not a collect or a reseller, just a poor musician with a small family...



    I always try to pay only so much money for cymbals I could be able to sell them for in case I had to do so (e.g. do not like so much after trying personally, have financial problems, etc).



    I think your 20” old stamp with 1878 grams sounds great, but I am confident I would not be able to get more than 1300 USD considering the very significant, long keyhole in case I finally had to sell her.

    People always want to pay less if the condition is not perfect regardless the sound of the cymbal.

    Based on my experiences a similar 20” old stamp in perfect condition could be sold for 1500 USD, a 20” between 1650-1750 grams maybe for 1600 USD, again in perfect condition.

    I remember a few case I sold a cymbal with such a long keyhole and people came with different concerns e.g. will not fit right on the cymbal stand, or the cymbal stuck in a certain position so can crack more easily given the cymbal cannot move, or they cannot change the position of the cymbal, or they thought the cymbal had been cracked and repaired this way, etc, etc…



    Despite all these - after thinking a lot – finally I decided to increase my offer up to 1500 USD for your 20” – risking I loose money in case I had to sell her - only because I think this 20” would match great with your 22” with 2348 grams I would also buy.



    I considered buying only 1 cymbal from you, but finally I rejected that option as these 2 work so well together in my opinion so I would play them together.”



    ****Here comes the money shot ya’ll*****




    “*****In terms of your 22” old stamp with 2348 grams I think my 2000 USD offer is fair considering the keyhole****”

    To put a ribbon on this turd, he haggled more over the last $40 of shipping (less than 1/90 of the overall deal price, which he refused to pay, or even split, and insisted he would not have done the deal otherwise...

    A true humanitarian folks...

    Caveat emptor all... I hope there is a Hungarian translation for that...
    Last edited by veejay; 02-07-2018 at 11:49 AM.

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  12. #19
    SENIOR "HOLIC Blueprint's Avatar
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    Last edited by Blueprint; 02-07-2018 at 11:58 AM.
    Sizzle swings....

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  14. #20
    Super Moderator zenstat's Avatar
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    ^ indeed. This thread has crossed an etiquette line for me, but so far I haven't done much other than try to provide sales data from a neutral point of view. Here is my attempt to describe what proper etiquette is from the FAQ:

    Quote Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
    We prefer prices in listings so we don't end up with a guessing game or $1 NO RESERVE auctions. It helps people know whether to be excited by something, or if it is out of their budget. Etiquette is that you don't post "YUR ASKING 2 MUCH" or "YUR SYMBAL SUX" in somebody's ad. If you think there is a mis-identification or silly pricing going on then you might PM the seller and politely mention something.
    I much prefer to have a hands off moderation approach. But this one presents a problem. I'm locking it down while I consult with the warring factions.
    "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact" (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

    Which K Stamp is this? A DIY tool click here
    Old K prices and weights click here
    Avedis Zildjian Gallery and Timeline click here
    Old A prices and weights click here
    Paiste 602/Sound Creation prices click here

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