Agop 22" Vezir and 21" SE

[adamg]

Woo Hoo! I recently acquired a 2267 gms Vezir 22" Jazz Ride from cymbalsonly. I had my first gig with it today along with a 21" SE Jazz Ride that I got from CymbalGuy (don't remember the weight but it's light). I put one rivet in the Vezir and used it as my main. Wow! Where do I begin? This pie is looww pitched and trashy but because of the full lathing on top, you get a brighter stick than on a sig or a turk. The bell really is a bell as opposed to a mere hump in the middle of the pie. It cuts in a most musical way. The crash is trashy and mysterious. The SE is about a minor third higher in pitch and has a slightly more high-endy stick. It crashes beautifully and mallet rolls are enough to make you tear up. These pies were a perfect pair. This site has taught me so much that my purchases are more amd more successful. Thanks all!

[Jaye]

THANK YOU, DUDE !!!! I was wondering when someone else here would take the plunge and use a Vezir as their main ride !!!! So, I am not alone (I have a 20" pre-split). Wild...exhilirating...no ? A little scary at times...but man, she'll keep you on your sonic toes ! What a combo, eh ? Trashy wash with rally good stick. Glad you like it...the longer you play it, the more you will discover the variety of sounds you can coax from one of these !!!!!!!

[saysumthincleva]

Thanks for the info on the Vezir Series!
I always liked the sound files on CymbalsOnly.
But,I am afraid of the wash vs. stick.
I have a bit of a heavy hand.

I'll have to listen to some of them again.

I have never bought anything from CymbalsOnly.
The guy who runs that site seems really cool.
It's a great resource!
Prices seem very reasonable too.

[Jaye]

hey Saysumthin'....Adam, feel free to chime in here....it took me a long time to find the right stick to use on a Vezir...but eventually I did find the one that controlled the trashiness/wash/overtones the way I wanted it to....so, you may have to go thru a half-dozen or so varieties.

(Firth Swinger SD10....incidentally) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Agopsalott]

[ QUOTE ]
Woo Hoo! I recently acquired a 2267 gms Vezir 22" Jazz Ride from cymbalsonly.

[/ QUOTE ]
adamg,
Count me in as another Vezir lover. I've been playing a 22" 2405g for a while now, and it's a keeper. Nice and smokey with great stick definition. I'm thinking of adding one rivet. Whatayathink?

[CymbalGuy]

I picked up a terrific 22" Vezir (2272gr) not long ago from my friend Formalist...Great, controlled acoustic ride cymbal, on the dark side! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[adamg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Woo Hoo! I recently acquired a 2267 gms Vezir 22" Jazz Ride from cymbalsonly.

[/ QUOTE ]
adamg,
Count me in as another Vezir lover. I've been playing a 22" 2405g for a while now, and it's a keeper. Nice and smokey with great stick definition. I'm thinking of adding one rivet. Whatayathink?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, one rivet sure enhanced mine. Didn't change the overall character but gave it that nice sizzle towards the end of the decay. I just wanted to be able to play slow and fill the beat, which one rivet did just fine. Because this gal is so sensitive, I think that any more than one would overwhelm her. Your mileage may vary. BTW, this Vezir is also awesome with my 22" 2069 gm Sig.

[logdrum]

I am planning to get a Sig or an SE from Tony. Any of you guys have an advice on which of the 2 series have more of a pow in the stick sound.

[adamg]

Not sure what you mean by "pow." The SE's definitely have more high end content and therefore more cut. If you're talking about beefiness, I would tend to give that to the Sig, which also has more trash. However, the sounds of both of these lines are very susceptible to different stick models. Check his sound samples and see what you think.

[logdrum]

I did check his samples but he uses VF 8D --- and I use beaded sticks (Erskine /Bolero) -- "Pow" is a the stick tah followed by pre crash/trash break from the tah. -- this I've heard in an older K -- like a thin trhashy flat but still with a bell tone. This is the sound in my head but not as evident if you use a heavier teardrop sticks and have a heavier strike. If you listen to Tony's ride pattern on the performance and kit samples there is the part where he breaks the ride pattern (Not the accents) but it's a syncopation that feels like he is changing the patterns direction. He does it so lightly but too fast to evaluate the pow factor of the really thin cymbals. I am currently liking the 22" 2070 and 21" 1887 sigs on the site.

[Agopsalott]

[ QUOTE ]
. I am currently liking the 22" 2070 and 21" 1887 sigs on the site.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's very thin for a 22". Probably sounds great, but will it be heard in anything other than low volume work?

[logdrum]

I need it for low volume work

[bilkay]

The SEs are great cymbals but I think it's a Sig you're looking for. Keep in mind that with the sticks you use, the undercurrent is going to be prominent, so you may want to go a little heavier with the cymbal- the Bolero, in particular, may make the cymbals you listed get away from you. I use both Pro-Mark Elvin Jones (teardrop/elongated bead) and Michael Carvins (small round bead) and there is a WORLD of difference in the cymbal's reaction to the two sticks. I just got a 22", 2327g Sig from Tony that roars under the stick when I use the Carvins but is much tamer under the Elvins. I've also got a 20", 1968g Sig that sounds heavier (meaning less washy) than the weight would indicate.

I'm not saying don't go with the cymbals you mentioned, but it could be very easy to overplay them.

If you haven't discussed the cymbals with Tony, please do so. He can really help match you to some great cymbals. Keep in mind, however, that Tony's personal cymbals are REALLY thin.

[Agopsalott]

[ QUOTE ]
I need it for low volume work

[/ QUOTE ]
Perfect!

[Ptrick]

[ QUOTE ]
did check his samples but he uses VF 8D --- and I use beaded sticks (Erskine /Bolero) -- "Pow" is a the stick tah followed by pre crash/trash break from the tah. -- this I've heard in an older K -- like a thin trhashy flat but still with a bell tone. This is the sound in my head

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to disagree, but if I understand you correctly, I think the Special Editions are what you are looking for. The Sigs in the thinner weights are more or less "transparent", as I would describe as if the stick sound is shooting through the floor in a straight line. The Special editions will give you more 'on top of the cymbal' air, which to me sounds more like a flat ride...that cushion of air that never overtakes the stick. The sigs tend to go more 'deng', and the SPecial Editions more "Paw". I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I have owned dozens of each and played hundreds of both lines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

I hope this is sort of what you are referring to. Feel free to ask or clarify what you are meaning if I have misinterpreted.

Also, if there is a pie that Tony has you are interested in, he has mentioned in the past he can play it with a different stick (maybe not...you could at least ask!)

[Agopsalott]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I have owned dozens of each and played hundreds of both lines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can confirm this, as I have witnessed Patrick's disorder first hand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Believe me....he's an expert.

[logdrum]

Guys would it help if I posted my enail with Tony.

"At this point I do not want it to be versatile to do other things aside from acoustic music -- kind of Tains K but a little more body. An approximation would do as I am really enjoying the Turk I got from you. I know it is not a gonna be a K but I want some thrash and dark tah stick almost like a pow and a darth vader wash underneath at least that sound in one of the cymbals tone zones. The bell can be integrated as well or not. I also like the ability to crash near the bell or at least break up when you hit hard and a stick response the feels like you are punching through. "

Tony reply:

"Ok, if you want some trash, a dark tah, and darth vader wash, there are 3 models that I would feel very comfortable recommending...depending on how much of one characteristic you want to emphasize. Let me explain:

Sigs: These have everything you're looking for, and with the thinner models, have that low, dark tah, and darth vader vibe going. They differ the most from the other 2 that I'm gonna recommend in terms of dryness. The sigs are warm and buttery smooth, but drier. Not quite as dry as your turk, but it has a little bit of that in the sound. They wobble, move a lot of air, and you can hear them "breathe." If you're looking for something on the dry side of darth, this is the one.

SE: If you can imagine the sigs with a little more open of a sound - kind of a blend of the sigs and the mels, this is what the SEs are. Basically, they're a sig with a lathed top, and what that lathed top does is take away a bunch of the dryness. It's still controlled, but a more open sounding. The tah is there, the warm darth vibe is there, but with a little more wash. Gorgeous low rumble.

Mel: More wash due to the traditional lathing, more full sound, darth, tah, complex - all of that, but with the most open sound of all of them. These are thin and low-pitched in the 21 and 22 sizes. Sticking is warm and buttery, but obviously, much less drier than the others, especially the sig. "

----------------

What is the sound in my head! I think it was Palle Danielson with Jan Garbarek or was it with Manu KAtche and one drummer I forgot playing with Egberto Gizmonti. The cymbal sound was dark but thin at the same time as if it was always on the verge of breaking up. And the vader breath wash is oscillating that is drier also. I do not think I'll overplay it. If I use big sticks then the zings come out as evident with my crusty 1950 22 Avedis at 1935 grams. I do not like the zing to be prominent.

Yes I had been going back and forth between the Sig and SE on his site.

[Agopsalott]

Logdrum,
Thanks for posting Tony's email. Really interesting. No need to search any further...just get them both. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Daniel]

Logdrum,

thank you very much. Really interesting.

I LOVE the term "Darth Vader wash"!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ATB
Daniel

[bilkay]

Just to bring this thread back to life, I just got a 22", 2255g Vezir from bjsteve, and it's incredible. VERY low pitched with that beautiful Vezir roar underneath a cool woody/clicky stick. I just played this thing with a ROCK guitarist (at relatively low volume), and it KICKED! The wash just blended and disappeared, leaving a stick CLICK that was unbelievable. At the same time, that "disappeared" wash added body to the music. The guitarist LOVED the Vezir. The only strange thing was that it seemed that riding the Vezir sort of cancelled out the chick of my Agop Sig hats, which reappeared when I started riding on my 23" Sig. Weird.

And my Vezir back story is this- I bought a 22", 2282g Vezir from CymbalsOnly a couple of months ago and sent it back because it was too metallic and harsh to my ear. Then I heard Agopsalott's CD sample and knew I had to give the Vezirs another try. This new one is exactly what I was looking for when I bought the first one. It's just an incredible cymbal. Now its got me thinking about a 20"....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif