Trans stamp? Looks like somebody just got had

[drumaholic]

VINTAGE 18" ZILDJIAN "TRANS STAMP" CRASH RIDE W/ 6 RIVETS (http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-18-ZILDJIAN-TRANS-STAMP-CRASH-RIDE-W-6-RIVETS_W0QQitemZ130203440376QQihZ003QQcategoryZ414 46QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[mountainhick]

Indeed. I emailed the seller about it, even sent him a photo of a real trans stamp. Mistakes, accidental misidentifications, and lack of knowledge happen (so does fraud).

[zenstat]

Indeed. I emailed the seller about it, even sent him a photo of a real trans stamp. Fraud happens.

so do mistakes, accidental misidentifications, and lack of knowledge.

it's a jungle out there.

that's why I rely on my friends at: cymbalholic.com

[jptrickster]

Thats the special 70's version

[mountainhick]

so do mistakes, accidental misidentifications, and lack of knowledge.

it's a jungle out there.

that's why I rely on my friends at: cymbalholic.com

I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

[zenstat]

I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

quote away...it was written while I was hearing an ad voice over in my head...:D

[drumaholic]

Clearly the seller is mainly to blame, whether or not this amounts to being a mistake, an accidental misidentification, or just plain lack of knowledge.

But to a lesser degree the buyer is also to blame for not being knowledgeable enough to prevent himself from being led down the prairie path.

[jptrickster]

not a bad looking cymbal though....... nice vintage/aged look..........rivits add character.
Amazingly enough, I've noticed cymbals with aged patina generally get more bids and higher prices. Seems like sellers have caught on that "Trans stamp" is the money maker

[drumaholic]

And since we're on the subject...

Here's one that was not actually advertised as a trans stamp, but one that I think had a pretty good chance of actually being one:


cymbal sizzle ride zildjian "a" 20" (http://cgi.ebay.com/cymbal-sizzle-ride-zildjian-a-20_W0QQitemZ140211554177QQihZ004QQcategoryZ41446QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[mountainhick]

And since we're on the subject...

Here's one that was not actually advertised as a trans stamp, but one that I think had a pretty good chance of actually being one:


cymbal sizzle ride zildjian "a" 20" (http://cgi.ebay.com/cymbal-sizzle-ride-zildjian-a-20_W0QQitemZ140211554177QQihZ004QQcategoryZ41446QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Ha! I kinda thought it might be something special too. I talked with that seller today. No deeper impression on the Z or Co. His description of the stamp sounded like a late 50's. I would have bid on it if i hadn't bought another kit and bunch of extras locally yesterday.

[drumaholic]

Ha! I kinda thought it might be something special too. I talked with that seller today. No deeper impression on the Z or Co. His description of the stamp sounded like a late 50's. I would have bid on it if i hadn't bought another kit and bunch of extras locally yesterday.

Oh well. I wouldn't feel too bad about not getting it.

Because after all....it did have one rivet missing.http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

See? I'm using smiley faces now.

[dbone]

VINTAGE 18" ZILDJIAN "TRANS STAMP" CRASH RIDE W/ 6 RIVETS (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=2551924&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2FVINTAGE-18-ZILDJIAN-TRANS-STAMP-CRASH-RIDE-W-6-RIVETS_W0QQitemZ130203440376QQihZ003QQcategoryZ414 46QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


Indeed. I only say this because I was the "winner" but am disputing it with the seller. :oops:

I requested a retraction of the "best-offer" bid and he his arguing it...

I'll keep you posted.

Man... nothing gets past you guys!

[drumaholic]

Indeed. I only say this because I was the "winner" but am disputing it with the seller. :oops:

I requested a retraction of the "best-offer" bid and he his arguing it...

I'll keep you posted.

Man... nothing gets past you guys!

I hope it turns out all right for you.

With the information he received from mountainhick he shouldn't be arguing.

If you need me to help let me know.

[jptrickster]

I hope it turns out all right for you.

With the information he received from mountainhick he shouldn't be arguing.

If you need me to help let me know.

Membership benefits: Not only do you get streaming info and friendship.......you also get your very own Cymbal Posse!!!

[dbone]

The seller says his local drum shop told him it was a trans stamp and it looks like all the other "trans stamps" he owns.

He pointed out that his auction stated, "ask questions before bidding..." and as much as it bothers me to say it - he has a point. On the other hand, I feel items should be as described and his disclaimer does not afford him any protection from inaccurate listings. So it appears we've reached an impasse and an official dispute is likely.

I had a case of itchy trigger finger and placed an offer from my cell phone without performing my due dilligence. I've learned some great things in my short time on cymbalholic, but I should have learned that lesson long before now... A classic rookie move on my part.

[mountainhick]

The seller says his local drum shop told him it was a trans stamp and it looks like all the other "trans stamps" he owns.

He pointed out that his auction stated, "ask questions before bidding..." and as much as it bothers me to say it - he has a point. On the other hand, I feel items should be as described and his disclaimer does not afford him any protection from inaccurate listings. So it appears we've reached an impasse and an official dispute is likely.

I had a case of itchy trigger finger and placed an offer from my cell phone without performing my due dilligence. I've learned some great things in my short time on cymbalholic, but I should have learned that lesson long before now... A classic rookie move on my part.

That itchy trigger finger can definitely get ya. I have learned the hard way a couple times a couple hard lessons on ebay:

1: If the listing does not provide all the info you need, ask questions and don't bid until you receive complete answers. If you don't receive an answer or do not receive complete answers, the seller is probably hiding something. The more ambiguous the seller's information, the more likely you'll get burned.

2: Likewise with bad photos; If you can't make out the details you want in the photos provided, get better photos from the seller or don't bid.

3: If you decide to pull the trigger anyway, be sure you are ready to take responsibility for your own dissapointment. I make bids like this regularly, but I am sure to only bid what I am willing to lose.

4: Always keep in mind there will probably be a better deal tomorrow anyway.

[mbettis]

I also sent the seller a message letting him know that that cymbal is not one that is commonly referred to as a Trans Stamp.

He misrepresented that Zildjian, now knows that he did, and doesn't seem to care.

I'd fight him tooth and nail.

Later,
Matt

[Dylan]

It sounds as if you haven't paid yet. Is that the case? If it is you have no problem at all. He can only give you a negative feedback and an unpaid item disute which will not actually cost you anything(as long as you don't have lot's of them). His listing was false even the title so I don't think he will even give you negative feedback as long as you stay cool. I wouldn't be worried at all unless you've already paid.


PS I hope you don't mind but I'm putting you on my blocked buyer list.





Just kidding. :wink:

[drumaholic]

It sounds as if you haven't paid yet. Is that the case? If it is you have no problem at all. He can only give you a negative feedback and an unpaid item disute which will not actually cost you anything(as long as you don't have lot's of them). His listing was false even the title so I don't think he will even give you negative feedback as long as you stay cool. I wouldn't be worried at all unless you've already paid.


PS I hope you don't mind but I'm putting you on my blocked buyer list.





Just kidding. :wink:


But didn't they just get rid of feedback lately? In that case I really don't think he has anything to worry about.

[Dylan]

I don't think they've done that here in France. Maybe over there. What's the deal with that?

[drumaholic]

I don't think they've done that here in France. Maybe over there. What's the deal with that?

Its their answer to the problems with the feedback system. Just get rid of it.

[dbone]

Hi all. The seller's position is that I'm feeling the pangs of buyer's remorse and stands firm on his belief that this is a trans stamp cymbal.

I typically pay for things quickly so there's very, very little chance I'll get my money back on this one. A good lesson learned by overpaying about $100 for a cymbal... Textbook ignorance on my part, so I only blame myself.


Here's the latest exchange:

ME:
Aaron,
I don't think you intentionally misled anyone with your inaccurate title and description. However, it is definitely not a trans stamp cymbal, no matter what your drum shop told you or what you believe.

Although your auction states to "ask questions before bidding" it is outweighed by Ebay's policy to sell items as described. You described it as a trans stamp in the title and description. It is not. Several authorities on the subject also agree it is not a trans stamp.

I suggest shipping the cymbal back to you for a full refund of my money. You and I eat our respective shipping costs and walk away from this transaction.

I am prepared to file a dispute with paypal/ebay but I would rather work this out directly.

Thanks,
Dennis


HIM:
DENNIS,
first of all no one was being misled, the ebay policy rests on
the seller to provide enough description and pictures for the buyer to make
an informed decision, just because you the buyer feel now that you made a
poor decision ( i feel that you are incorect) does in no way mean that i am
at fault. when you place that bid you as the buyer agree to what you are
getting ( you will recieve the same cymbal in the pictures just as
described). second the same research that was avaliable to you after you
bid was there before. i suggest from now on that you do any research you
feel you must prior to placing a bid / contract. i was given information
from a great shop telling me this was in fact a trans stamp cymbal. im
sorry that after the auction is over you decided to change your mind. your
cymbal will be at your door in 3 days. i do not offer refunds
enjoy your
cymbal
Aaron

-arvin4613

ME:
Dear arvin4613,

Aaron, this has nothing to do with buyer's remorse. you advertised it as a trans stamp cymbal and it isn't. My fault for not noticing your misleading listing. Your fault for blantantly ignoring the people who told you it was not as described, the people that emailed you pictures of REAL trans stamp cymbals, and relying on a title that states one thing and a picture that shows another in order to dupe someone into buying your 1970's A.

Enjoy your negative feedback.

Dennis

[deepop]

let's all go and get this guy. the nerve!

sorry. just sick of ebay. btw i think the feedback system is still active.

[mlvbs]

The feedback changes don't take effect until May.

This is a tough one. He did say trans stamp, which the cymbal is obviously not. However, the picture of stamp makes that clear.

I've done a couple of disputes in paypal, and I can almost guarantee that you will win in this case...they always favor the buyer. When they freeze the seller's Paypal account, that is usually enough for them to come around.

But you have to ask yourself if it's worth the trouble, and if it is really warranted. Any good seller would refund the money instantly and just relist, but this guy doesn't want to lose any money.

I bought my 1959 Slingerland Turquoise Veil Radio King from this guy for $300 buy it now or something like that, so he obviously doesn't know what he's doing.

I guess if it were me I'd either call the guy and try to work it out that way (much, much harder to be a stubborn jerk over the phone) or just cut my losses...if you resold the cymbal yourself you wouldn't lose that much more than if you had to pay to return ship it anyway.

[dbone]

But you have to ask yourself if it's worth the trouble...

...if you resold the cymbal yourself you wouldn't lose that much more than if you had to pay to return ship it anyway.

Good point.

Bottom line: I'm only blaming myself for the situation I put myself in. I should have known better on several counts.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, support, etc.

I'm moving on...

[deepop]

did you get it yet? it may turn out to be a great cymbal.

[RICK]

Thats the special 70's version




70s Trans stamp...


Yeah...Transcendental Meditation

[dbone]

Than you should pay for it and move on.


I typically pay for things quickly so there's very, very little chance I'll get my money back on this one. A good lesson learned by overpaying about $100 for a cymbal...

I paid within about an hour winning. I'm still getting a cymbal, so this whole thing can't be all that bad...

Let's all move on, shall we?

[egw]

Uh oh, I did pretty much the same thing with the same guy. Was drinking/surfing listings last night and unfortunately let the whiskey do the bidding for me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130203437521&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

I don't have any problems with the accuracy of the listing, but I also suffered from a case of itchy trigger finger. Should've asked for more info before bidding but didn't. Just made an offer that I didn't expect would be accepted. I've been looking for one of these for a while to go with a 780 gram, 13 7/8" Constantinople I've had for years. This one's a bit bigger at 14.5" (or so his auction says) so I'll have the bottom-slightly-bigger-than-the-top old school hi-hat set up.

In any case, I hope you can resolve the dispute peacefully. I'm still waiting to hear back from this guy.

[jda]

Thats a cool old K Con eg

[egw]

Thats a cool old K Con eg

Yes, I'm looking forward to getting it. That is, if I pay for it. I received an email from the seller and he's got a pretty sour attitude. Sad.

[egw]

Wow, the bells on these cymbals are very different. Mine (on the left) has a very wide and flat bell. The one in the auction (right) has a much steeper bell and it appears to have a smaller diameter, though it's hard to tell from the photo alone.

Didn't somebody say that cymbals from this era used to have their bells pounded in in stacks rather than individually? If so, I guess that would account for the wide variety of bell shapes.

[drumaholic]

The different sized bells on these K Constantinoples are pretty common.

In fact this is so prevalent that I think they may have done this intentionally in order to accomodate the different uses for the 2 cymbals. One was mounted, and the other one held with a strap played against it.

I don't think that they seriously got into the stack hammering until the old stamp era. And then they quit doing that around the new stamp era.

[mbettis]

Hey Bill, how were New Stamp bells formed?

Thanks,
Matt

[drumaholic]

Hey Bill, how were New Stamp bells formed?

Thanks,
Matt

Despite what might be heard from some drummers who believe in urban myths on this subject, they are hand hammered.

[mbettis]

Individually as opposed to in stacks?

Thanks,
Matt

[drumaholic]

Individually as opposed to in stacks?

Thanks,
Matt


I think so.

The reason I say this is because I've had a few of the old stamps that must have been stack hammered and it seems pretty obvious that they were. The bells on those aren't just a little lopsided as you can find on almost any era. They're...well....pretty grotesque.

For the most part the bells on the new stamps look fairly close to perfect, but not totally so. I think they came close to perected bell shaping technique by that time. But if you hold one of those cymbals under a bright light and view it from the backside, you can barely see the hammer marks that they received during that process.

[trashman]

Individually as opposed to in stacks?

Thanks,
Matt

I wondered the same thing.

The first old K I ever had was a thin 20" new stamp, and that thing had a seriously lop-sided bell.
So much so that I got distinctly different pitches by playing opposing sides of the bell.

I should dig-up the sound-file for that...

[drumaholic]

I wondered the same thing.

The first old K I ever had was a thin 20" new stamp, and that thing had a seriously lop-sided bell.
So much so that I got distinctly different pitches by playing opposing sides of the bell.

I should dig-up the sound-file for that...


I really prefer bells with more than one pitch.

Most that are multi-dimensional have 2 different tones, but I have one that has 3 and another with 4 unique tones. And the bells on both of those cymbals come pretty close to being "regular".

[egw]

Dbone, just wondering whatever happened with this deal. Did you and the seller work it out? I've been watching his feedback rating and haven't seen anything on this auction.

I'm concerned because I finally just paid the guy for the K Constantinople after waiting a week for an invoice. I sent him about five emails over the week and he finally got back to me this morning saying sorry I must have forgot to send it. Then the dude writes me back a few hours later wondering where his money is and saying he doesn't want to file a dispute. Rather odd fellow. I don't recommend this guy to any other holics.

[dbone]

Dbone, just wondering whatever happened with this deal. Did you and the seller work it out? I've been watching his feedback rating and haven't seen anything on this auction.

I'm concerned because I finally just paid the guy for the K Constantinople after waiting a week for an invoice. I sent him about five emails over the week and he finally got back to me this morning saying sorry I must have forgot to send it. Then the dude writes me back a few hours later wondering where his money is and saying he doesn't want to file a dispute. Rather odd fellow. I don't recommend this guy to any other holics.

Definitely a strange guy. Caught dead, but still maintains he's right. How does one win an arguement with a crazy person?

I filed a paypal dispute. He says I'm trying to con my way into getting my money back. When I asked if he still claims this is a trans-stamp, he stopped all correspondence - that was about four days ago. He knows he's wrong and is just being a (Richard) about it...

I got the cymbal the other day and it's not bad. Clearly not what was advertised, but not a pig either. I haven't decided on the negative feedback or ebay dispute yet. I'd rather play.

I hope it works out for you. If not, I'm in for half the bus fare to go to his house! :devil:

[egw]

I hope it works out for you. If not, I'm in for half the bus fare to go to his house! :devil:

OK. Let me see what my cymbal's like when (if) I get it. Then we'll decide whether or not to muster the angry mob. Where's my torch?

Glad to hear the cymbal's working out for you. :)

[OCD72]

Definitely a strange guy. Caught dead, but still maintains he's right. How does one win an arguement with a crazy person?

I filed a paypal dispute. He says I'm trying to con my way into getting my money back. When I asked if he still claims this is a trans-stamp, he stopped all correspondence - that was about four days ago. He knows he's wrong and is just being a (Richard) about it...

I got the cymbal the other day and it's not bad. Clearly not what was advertised, but not a pig either. I haven't decided on the negative feedback or ebay dispute yet. I'd rather play.

I hope it works out for you. If not, I'm in for half the bus fare to go to his house! :devil:


This transaction seems like a textbook example of what negative feedback is for. Please leave it.