I don't understand eBay sometimes...

[JazzMe]

... why is this $1000 BIN Istanbul K still available!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Zildjian-Istanbul-K-Ride-Cymbal-Phenominal-NR_W0QQitemZ170188588915QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41446QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Someone please explain...
:confused:

[ivmike]

... why is this $1000 BIN Istanbul K still available!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Zildjian-Istanbul-K-Ride-Cymbal-Phenominal-NR_W0QQitemZ170188588915QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41446QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Someone please explain...
:confused:


Start the countdown.....3....2....1......poof

[JazzMe]

And another and possibly odder thing is that he's got an 1940's A that's $225 MORE...!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-40s-Zildjian-Trans-Stamp-Istanbul-K-lk-THIN_W0QQitemZ170188924489QQihZ007QQcategoryZ41446 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
:confused:

[JazzMe]

And on that K, not only is it only $1000 but I just noticed the seller accepts returns! Now, I am really wondering: am I missing something wrong with the cymbal... is there a problem with the seller...?!?!?!:confused:

:siren-01:Doctor K?!?! Doctor K?!?! PAGING BILL H.... PAGING BILL H... PAGING BILL H...:siren-01:


.

[bilkay]

For whatever reasons, it seems that the heavier Ks (22"=3000g, 20">2000g) sell slow and "cheap".

Personally, I have liked the heavy 22" K sound files I have heard, and since I play amplified music, the heavier cymbals might work better for me (I also use thin/light cymbals all the time). I have never heard a heavy old K in person.

If I was inclined to pay around $1,000 for a 20" cymbal, I'd probably roll the dice on this one. The same goes for the heavy 22" that was recently on eBay.

[Killer]

I had a 20" Intermediate Stamp around that weight...

IT SOUNDED HORRIBLE....really.....

I tried and tried to love it....

Even the guy who has it now never uses it....because it sounds bad...I keep telling him put it on ebay for $500-$600 and make some money

I played it with pianist Dino Losito (who LOVES old ks) and he immediately said...."Can you just play your crash the rest of the night...dont play that K on my solos...thats a bad one"


So...maybe because of the weight and that its an intermediate stamp?

[MarkShiner]

I had a 20" Intermediate Stamp around that weight...

IT SOUNDED HORRIBLE....really.....

I tried and tried to love it....

Even the guy who has it now never uses it....because it sounds bad...I keep telling him put it on ebay for $500-$600 and make some money

I played it with pianist Dino Losito (who LOVES old ks) and he immediately said...."Can you just play your crash the rest of the night...dont play that K on my solos...thats a bad one"


So...maybe because of the weight and that its an intermediate stamp?

Tell Dino that if he hangs out here he'd realize that there ARE no bad Ks.

[Killer]

:)

BTW......I want to be clear

Im "Paraphrasing" Dino

That IS NOT a direct quote from him...he is a great musician, great ears, and great guy...

Its MY take on that old K.....he isnt the only one who heard it and feels that way...

I dont like using others names etc...

probably should have just spoke for myself....:wink:

[drumaholic]

And on that K, not only is it only $1000 but I just noticed the seller accepts returns! Now, I am really wondering: am I missing something wrong with the cymbal... is there a problem with the seller...?!?!?!:confused:

:siren-01:Doctor K?!?! Doctor K?!?! PAGING BILL H.... PAGING BILL H... PAGING BILL H...:siren-01:


.


For a K. that's way too heavy. Most players would prefer to just hang onto their $1000 for a better, (read thinner) one. Something under 2000 grams would be much more preferable. I have 22's that weigh considerably less than that.

And as for Camcocat...well he's just in his own little world that's all. And in that world, its just him and his cymbal.

And when the auction is over....that's what will still be left there.

Just him and his cymbal.

[JazzMe]

For a K. that's way too heavy.

Can't I just read the whole freakin' thing! How dumbass of me...! THAT'S A 20!!!! Well, that makes more sense...

ALTHOUGH, I have played heavier Ks and I think they can sound unbelievable. I own a fantastic 20" intermediate stamp 2170gr. and used to own a great 22" at 2900gr or so.

And didn't Tony Williams play heavy Ks... they sounded great! In fact, with the exception of Dr. P's gorgeous $1850 22" medium light, the best ones I hear on eBay or other sites seem to be on the heavy side.

:thinking:

[nostaticatall]

The guy is a creep. He was high bidder on 2 of my cymbals and then had a "financial crisis" and wanted to back out on one. I let him. A week later, he was high bidder on a thin 20" Trans. Stamp.

[jda]

A 20". Intermediate Stamp. At that Weight. Is not for the 'faint of heart' Old K..gambler..
If it was a New Stamp at that weight...whole nother picture...
imo ooooo

[drumaholic]

The guy is a creep. He was high bidder on 2 of my cymbals and then had a "financial crisis" and wanted to back out on one. I let him. A week later, he was high bidder on a thin 20" Trans. Stamp.

He did the exact same thing to me.

And when I called him on it he said,


"Yeah but I think you pulled your bid on one of my auctions once too"

I had not. I never even bid on any auction by him. Nor have I ever pulled a bid on any auction on EBay ever.

The same guy calls me up and says that he wants me to consider him first ahead of the entire rest of the world if I should ever get a real nice 22" K.

But why should I? What would make him so special that he should be considered for privileged treatment?

He didn't get it.

He didn't get the point…nor did he get the 22" K.

[drumaholic]

And didn't Tony Williams play heavy Ks... they sounded great!

But it was an old stamp. That makes some difference.


And even so the fact still remains:

Most people still prefer thinner ones regardless of how much we might want to argue in favor of the heavier ones.

[Drumstar]

Well Bill and others....

We have done business many times. In fact, you've helped me many times with auctions most recently a 1760 gr. K I sold to a player in Cali. So, perhaps you are a bit confused as to who I am. Additionally, I have never been fortunate enough to win any of your auctions (and have bid on a few only to lose). We have discussed cymbals in detail many a time over the phone and email, etc...

I am saddened to see the words you typed. As a full time player, New England Conservatory grad., cymbal company endorser, college professor, etc... I think I have some understanding as to what makes a good cymbal. References are available upon request.

Certainly our tastes may very from pie to pie, but we must be in agreement that good bronze is good bronze. Some of the older heavier ones do sound good. This one sounds great and is priced accordingly. If for some reason I am the last guy with the cymbal when the auction ends, I will not be sad one bit. Matt Bettis listed the sound files of this pie above under the marketplace. Check it out for yourselves.

[Drumstar]

The guy is a creep. He was high bidder on 2 of my cymbals and then had a "financial crisis" and wanted to back out on one. I let him. A week later, he was high bidder on a thin 20" Trans. Stamp.

No I did not...must be thinking of someone else. You have purchased old A's from me and I purchased a great 3 rivet Bos Turk from you. Thanks. Please be more insightful of people you do business with.

[RICK]

Well Bill and others....

We have done business many times. In fact, you've helped me many times with auctions most recently a 1760 gr. K I sold to a player in Cali. So, perhaps you are a bit confused as to who I am. Additionally, I have never been fortunate enough to win any of your auctions (and have bid on a few only to lose). We have discussed cymbals in detail many a time over the phone and email, etc...

I am saddened to see the words you typed. As a full time player, New England Conservatory grad., cymbal company endorser, college professor, etc... I think I have some understanding as to what makes a good cymbal. References are available upon request.

Certainly our tastes may very from pie to pie, but we must be in agreement that good bronze is good bronze. Some of the older heavier ones do sound good. This one sounds great and is priced accordingly. If for some reason I am the last guy with the cymbal when the auction ends, I will not be sad one bit. Matt Bettis listed the sound files of this pie above under the marketplace. Check it out for yourselves.

NOW this is getting really intriguing...

[RICK]

No I did not...must be thinking of someone else. You have purchased old A's from me and I purchased a great 3 rivet Bos Turk from you. Thanks. Please be more insightful of people you do business with.

Like I just said...REAL intriguing...

[jda]

Well Then Just Buy it Rick....:D
wheres this sound file I'd like to hear an intermediate 20 at 2300...

[zenstat]

Matt Bettis listed the sound files of this pie above under the marketplace. Check it out for yourselves.

Your 1853g (http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=556) is a nice sounding cymbal to my ears. However, the 2341g (http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/vbclassified.php?do=ad&id=555) is not so appealing. But that might just be me. I've got a 2350g Dream Contact which is great so I'm not unfamiliar with medium weights.

Have we got into documentation/clerical/recollection errors here? Computers allow us to make mistakes faster than ever before, and the web allows us to propogate them faster as well.

Now that facts are in dispute, maybe we should all check our records carefully and see if we can reach agreement without getting all hot and bothered.

[jda]

Yes Its Confusing the soundfile is titled "1853" great more intrigue.lol!

[zenstat]

Yes Its Confusing the soundfile is titled "1853" great more intrigue.lol!

That was just me getting the listings mixed up. I've finally got both links the right way around (I hope!!) in my previous post. More haste less speed.

[RICK]

Well Then Just Buy it Rick....:D
wheres this sound file I'd like to hear an intermediate 20 at 2300...

Actually, I am intrigued by the recent evidence he (the seller) has produced about himself and who others thought he was. It seems as though either further accusations or sincere apologies of some kind are in order, depending on what the truth is...

[jda]

You mean they're opposite? Because I got the same wrong number :freak:
So the 23 in is the 18 is in the in the the..the
Good Luck! All!

[jda]

Just Buy It Rick :beer:

[RICK]

Just Buy It Rick :beer:

Not this time. I'll pass it up and regret it later. It's a pattern I've been following lately.

[Drumstar]

Yes Its Confusing the soundfile is titled "1853" great more intrigue.lol!

Listen guys...this is why I don't post all that often. I am a performer. I am not good with computers or soundfile technology. That is why Matt Bettis posted this for me. Additionally, this was recorded on my computer at home with a "techy" bassoon player helping me. We forgot to rename the second sound of the heavier cymbal. THE RECORDING QUALITY IS NOT GREAT, I understand that.

I have made no claims that it sounds like a 1700 gram K. It is heavier, there is lots of dark woody stick, but a great wash. I am not selling it like the $1750 K I sold that was an intermediate stamp in the 1700 gram range. This one is priced at $875.00.

This cymbal blends very well in a group setting. It is a players cymbal. If you want an rare super thin K, don't buy it...but don't rip it either because it is a great practical K and has been tested in the field, so to speak.

Additionally, I have sold to Jim Jacobus, DeePop, and many others. My feedback in 100% and most of my transactions are percussion instruments...mainly cymbals.

Let's just take a step back, not destroy peoples auctions, and let someone get a nice K at a nice price.

If its not your bag, that's ok. Don't bid.

[Drumstar]

He did the exact same thing to me.

And when I called him on it he said,



I had not. I never even bid on any auction by him. Nor have I ever pulled a bid on any auction on EBay ever.

The same guy calls me up and says that he wants me to consider him first ahead of the entire rest of the world if I should ever get a real nice 22" K.

But why should I? What would make him so special that he should be considered for privileged treatment?

He didn't get it.

He didn't get the point…nor did he get the 22" K.


I do not remember that. The only thing I ever requested was Billy Gladstone's 15" K Constantinoples. But if you do get a killer 22", I would love to have it!

[cw2603]

Let's just take a step back, not destroy peoples auctions, and let someone get a nice K at a nice price.

If its not your bag, that's ok. Don't bid.

This is where the habit of starting threads just to criticise people's Ebay auctions and call into question their judgement can go awry.

[bilkay]

nostaticatall and drumaholic:

You may want to refrain from making accusations against eBayers and the other folks you have (possibly) entered into gear transactions with. I have seen accusations made in the past on this and other drum/cymbal forums where the accuser(s) accused the wrong person. The eBayer being accused in this thread has a 100% positive rating. I would probably have left negative feedback for someone who backed out of a sale or otherwise ripped-me-off. Did you choose not to leave negative feedback for your unsatisfactory eBay transactions with camcocat? Could your accusations possibly be mistaken?

I'll apologize in advance to both of you for questioning your facts or memory, since I cannot possibly know the facts of your transactions.

However, please consider your statements carefully in the future.

Thanks,

Bill

[jda]

Oh but in the end its all just Internet Cyber Chat. Real men us, we make our own decisions .......regardless of whats cyber-typed where..
we'll recover ladies
The thread wasn't started to critcize but it was a where's the buyers Thread!
Free advertisment!

[nostaticatall]

As an avid Camco "collector", the transaction was not forgettable. If I had any equivocation about the facts, I would not have posted the thread. I "considered" the proported situation and left no feedback. Rather than leaving the earned negative feedback and dealing with retaliatory negative feedback, I believe leaving no feedback in these situations is common.

[bjisteve]

I believe I know drumstar/camcocat. That you Dave? If so, we've done a couple of deals and it's been straight up.

[Drumstar]

nostaticatall and drumaholic:

You may want to refrain from making accusations against eBayers and the other folks you have (possibly) entered into gear transactions with. I have seen accusations made in the past on this and other drum/cymbal forums where the accuser(s) accused the wrong person. The eBayer being accused in this thread has a 100% positive rating. I would probably have left negative feedback for someone who backed out of a sale or otherwise ripped-me-off. Did you choose not to leave negative feedback for your unsatisfactory eBay transactions with camcocat? Could your accusations possibly be mistaken?

I'll apologize in advance to both of you for questioning your facts or memory, since I cannot possibly know the facts of your transactions.

However, please consider your statements carefully in the future.

Thanks,

Bill

Bill and others-

Thank you. I completely agree. My feedback and credentials speak for themselves. I just think some find it fashionable to bash others auctions and reputations. It is too bad.

Thanks for coming to my rescue here.

[Drumstar]

I believe I know drumstar/camcocat. That you Dave? If so, we've done a couple of deals and it's been straight up.

Steve-

Yes it is. I am a straight shooter. Glad to see you doing well in the cities Steve. Keep it up!

Dave

[JazzMe]

This cymbal blends very well in a group setting. It is a players cymbal. If you want an rare super thin K, don't buy it...but don't rip it either because it is a great practical K and has been tested in the field, so to speak.

I bet it does indeed sound great "in play". My intermediate stamp is also a bit heavy and I didn't like it until I tried it live... a whole different ballgame.

I understand what you are saying Bill and I too wouldn't mind a thin K. However, for someone like me who is a big fan of thin (and here I mean REAL thin at under 200gr for a 22"), I am shocked how great heavy Ks can play (including new and intermediate stamps).