Fav Cymbal Albums

[Ptrick]

Ok, we've had posts like this in the past, but I wanted to start one up for the new folks, and also as an update for those who were already here.

What are some albums that you listen to and the cymbals just floor you every time you listen?

Here are a few of mine (in no particular order)

Nefertiti
Files de Kilamanjaro (these two blew me away when I first heard them...never heard such definition and trash in a cymbal at the same time)

Dave Douglas "Strange Liberation" (Clarence Penn)

I think Clarence has the most baddass cymbal sound of anyone new out right now...it is just so full and trashy yet lush at the same time. If you haven't heard, go to one of the music sites and listen to some clips. By the way, that cymbal is a first series 20 K Constantinople that he had thinned down at the Zildjian factory (fact courtesty of Clarence)

Brain Blade Fellowship (1st album)

Brians sound on this one is fantastic...I dig "Perceptual" also, but for some reason the cymbals sound fuller on the first one. This was before his beloved 24 A was cracked in several places, and he is of course using those coveted 16 old A hats that were a mismatched pair he picked up in a pawn shop (info courtesy of Brian /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I also dig the way his ride was recorded on Shorter's "Footprints Live"

Brad Mehldau "Largo"

This one is a crazy one if you are used to hearing his trio with Grenadier and Jorge. It sounds like a crazy mix of medeski martin and wood mixed in with Brad's melodic genius. Matt Chamberlain recorded most of the album, with help from Jim Keltner adding sounds and also Jorge on a couple tunes. I don't know who supplied the cymbals for this one, but they are so open, oriental, and thin sounding.

Jay Epstein "Long Ago"

This one should be MANDITORY for all new cymbalholics into jazz. Jay is a self proclaimed cymbal lover who only plays the drums so he can play the cymbals too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif This man can really play the cymbals...man oh man...I posted this on the old board, but here was his setup for the album:

I was playing my '76 Gretsch 12" & 14" toms with Ambassadors, '64 Slingerland 14" Epstein-sizzle-tom, '76 Gretsch 18" bd with calf head on front, '59 Slingerland 5 X 14 Radio King snare with Diplomats, 13" Istanbul hats, 8" Istanbul splash, 8" Avedis Flat sizzle, 12" Stanople splash, 11" Contantinople thin - circa '20s, 16" K. Istanbul (1977), 18" Paiste 602 flat (THE same cymbal one of my teachers, Barry Altschul used with Chick Corea on all his recordings late '60s/early '70s), 20" K. Istanbul - circa 1950s, 20" WuHan Dynasty - thin, 10" Black & Decker saw blade with 1 rivet, assorted bells, wind chimes.

Stefon Harris "A Cloud of Red Dust"

Alvester Garnett plays on this album, and it is one of the few where you really get to here him play his stuff (his normal gig is with Regina Carter). I'm not sure what he is using on this album, but of particular note is this chinese/pang type cymbal that he uses to crash on...just amazing!

Chick Corea "Live at the Blue Note Tokyo"

Vinnie plays on this one, and although he gets away with freakin murder on this one, his ride cymbal sound is fantastic. It is a K Zildjian one off prototype that they made for him back in the late 80's/early 90's to emulate the old K sound (proof that they could do it for their own artists, only took 'em 10 more years to get close with the cymbals they sell to the general public).

Griffith Park Collection

All star lineup of Lenny White, Joe Henderson, Stanley Clarke and Chick Corea. Only available on LP but a treasure if you can find it. The meanest, darkest, trashiest old K this side of Tony Williams (thanks Lenny for letting me pick your brain about it).

Ok, that's it for now...I'm sure I'll think of more later. How about you guys????

[TBdrummer]

Great picks P! But let me add a few too...not necessarily always the kind of sound I dig but definitely GREAT cymbal recordings:

Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs
Roy, Chick, Miroslav plus an 18" flat - nuff said!

John Patitucci - One More Angel (drums: Paul Motian)
I don't know what it is but the mix is just so incredible. I can't get over how full his drums sound on that record. The cymbals are out of this world on tape - I'd never want the same sound but guys, that one must be checked out (and given to your sound tech!).

Marc Copland Trio - Haunted Heart
A beautiful record featuring Drew Gress on bass and Jochen Rückert on drums. Only ballads on that record but never boring or whatnot. Jochen, once again, got out some of the finest old Ks I've heard for that recording.

Sam Rivers - Fuchsia Swing Song
One of my favourite Tony cymbal recordings!!

[Daniel]

[ QUOTE ]
Chick Corea "Live at the Blue Note Tokyo"

Vinnie plays on this one, and although he gets away with freakin murder on this one, his ride cymbal sound is fantastic. It is a K Zildjian one off prototype that they made for him back in the late 80's/early 90's to emulate the old K sound (proof that they could do it for their own artists, only took 'em 10 more years to get close with the cymbals they sell to the general public).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I love this record, too.
Obviously not any of Vinnie's A-Customs. I thought it could have been a Pre Aged K. Thank you for that information!

ATB
Daniel

[bjisteve]

I love Billy Higgins's sound on Charlesw Lloyd's Hyperion With Higgins. Not his usual 602 sound, darker and smoother.
peace
Steve

[CHADMIN]

Hey Toby, yeh that Pattitucci record is something...that first tune...man....and the way Paul's cymbals sound on there is fantastic! I was just listening to that the other day.

[Gabriel]

Oh yeah, Paul Motian on that one sounds amazing... but he always does! Anything too with Jochen Rückert also means great old K cymbal sound. Drummer Dre Pallemaerts did a recording with the Bill Carrothers trio (Swing sing songs)and the cymbal sound is awesome. Leon Parker with Jacky Terrason also sounds great, particularly on Reach. I think it was recorded with just two ambiental microphones... and that little single flat ride sounds just great.

[dark_energy]

[ QUOTE ]

"Chick Corea - Now He Sings, Now He Sobs.
Roy/Chick/Miroslav..plus an 18" flat - nuff said".

...now here's a question that's been pondered over by many...really what exactly was that cymbal that Roy used on Now He Sings, Now He Sobs? Obviously it is a Paiste Formula 602 flat ride because nobody was making flat rides that early except paiste (1968)...but what size was it? I have researched and listened and researched and listened and in many of the tracks I hear TWO distinct flat rides, especially when Roy plays brushes. I hear the main ride as a 20" 602 flat because of the lower wash when crashed but then you can hear Roy crash another flat that has a higher crash on tracks like "My one and only Love" and "I Don't Know" (these are from the remastered reissue from Blue Note which I highly Recommend!). Likewise, the story goes, that Chick gave this cymbal to Airto for the recording of the first "Return to Forever" on ECM. Another great unknown rumor.
I absolutely love this record and it knocked me off of the planet when I first heard it back in the early 70's. I'm pretty sure he's also playing a set of Ludwig Jazzette drums. I have a set and they are very dry and "cracky" and extremely "woody" sounding tubs. And he may be playing a set of 15" 602 hi-hats. At last that's what my (pretty educated about paiste stuff) ears hear. All in all one of the best modern jazz CD's ever made IMHO.
Anyone else with some insight?
cheers

[CHADMIN]

I always thought that flat that roy used on that was a 20"...there was an article featuring Roy and Chick in a publication a few years ago...they were holding that very cymbal and discussed it. That one was a 20"...or so I thought. Sounds like an 18" to me, personally. Perhaps he used a 20 on the left? hmm....

[formalist2]

SO many to mention, but a current fav of mine is Sam Yahel's YAYA3 cd with Blade and Redman. Cozy organ trio format and Brian's dry-as-dirt cymbal sound sends chills down my spine. Wonderful tunes and playing from all. On a pop/rock note, you can't beat Joe Jackson's live "Summer in the City" cd. Gary Burke's drumming is PERFECT for each and every tune...VERY under-rated drummer. But his Paistes are recorded beautifully and he has great touch on them.

[Gongman]

Hmmm, I've been sitting here thinking about this and realize i could probably easily list 100 recordings! I am a complete gear fetishest and buy a lot of CDs just for the sound. I'll try to list some of my favorites:

Tamia/Pierre Favre - de la nuit...le jour (ECM). This could very well be a Paiste demo record. Recorded at ECM's famous Rainbow Studios in Norway, the sound is amazingly transparent. It helps that the music is only female voice and drums. If you want to hear the pristine sound of Paiste 602 cymbals and gongs, this is the one. Pierre's playing and compositions are amazing too.

Rypdal/Vitous/DeJohnette - self titled (ECM). Late '70s DeJohnette playing his Paiste Sound Creations...as much as so many people adore Tony William's ride cymbal sound, I prefer Jack's Sound Creation Dark here. This is THE ride cymbal to me. Dark, yet crisp and pingy. The music here is both cool and smoldering at the same time.

Robyn Schulkowsky/Nils Petter Molvær - Hastening Westward (ECM). I will go on record as saying Robyn Schulkowsky is one of the most amazing, yet under-rated/known percussionists on the planet! An American based in Berlin for many years (now based in Italy?), she plays mostly classical/contemporary classical music. Pier And Ocean - part II has one of the most gorgeous recorded cymbals I have ever heard! I don't have any idea what it is, but this song opens with Robyn play a syncopated ride pattern, getting all sorts of colors & texture from her cymbal, and Nils playing a mournful trumpet line. I'm listening to this right now and I have shivers in my spine. If you want to hear some amazing drumming/music that is not rock or jazz, but lives in the cracks between everything out there, run out and buy this!!!

Pierre Favre/Fredy Studer - Crisscrossing (FMR). Wow! These 2 drumming masters have been playing together for over 20 years, but just now recorded something. Astounding playing and the sound is exceptionally crisp, clear, and lush. OK, this is a Paiste festival! And the best part is they list all their gear and have diagrams, so you know what is what. They produced this one themselves, and rightly so. There are very few drummers out there who know as much about cymbals/gongs and how they sound than they do. I was fortunate enough that they asked me to write the liner notes - I am not worthy!

Alexander von Schlippenbach/Tony Oxley - Digger's Harvest (FMP) A live piano & drums duo that is amazingly well recorded. Tony Oxley has always been THE Tony for me. He plays like the Jackson Pollock of drums, splattering and dripping sounds & texture everywhere. His cymbals sparkle and punctuate the music. And he's got the world's largest freaking cowbell!

Paul Motian and the EBBB - Flight of the Bluejay (Winter & Winter). I could easily pick just about any Motian recording, as he always has great cymbals and knows how to play them. But this is a really great CD full of everything you love about Paul. All the Winter & Winter (and JMT) discs are wonderfully recorded.[/i]

Gräwe/Reijseger/Hemingway - Saturn Cycle (Music & Arts). Gerry Hemingway was one of the 1st guys to get hip to Istanbul cymbals. He uses 14" hats, 18" Crash, 20" ride - that's it! But he gets an orchestra of sounds from them. A sensitive and engaging player, I've seen him do things I've never seen any other drummer do. His Istys are always well recorded. [/i]

[Tariacuri]

Can we please ban the Fav. threads, because they always end up costing me so much freakin money!!

Just kidding, I love these sorts of threads because I always learn so much and I've ended up with some must have music.

OK, back to work

[formalist2]

Oh yeah, Gongman! ANY Paul Motian album. I especially love the recent EBBB "Europe" cd.

[Killer]

1. Indestructable...Art Blakey..Big Old K
2. My Funny Valentine....Miles Davis/Tony Williams
3. Anything with Al Foster playing his Paiste Dark Ride
4. Cant remember the name but it's Charlie Haden's Quartet West...Lawrence Marable has a REALLY SWEET WET ride cymbal
that I love...not my style but it is just perfect for that group.
5. I also love all of Ed Blackwell's more mainstream stuff like that CD he did with Joe Lovano. Great cymbal sound

[paulwells73]

Jack DeJohnette's album "Pictures" - wow, what an amazing work of art this record is. Jack shows that the drumset can be a beautiful and sensitive musical instrument. Great Paiste record too! Probably some of the precursors to the Sound Creation line - a 22" 602 dark ride, maybe a prototype for the dark hihats, and definetly a 602 flat in there too.

[TBdrummer]

Pictures - I've been wanting that CD forever, can't find it anywhere though...unfortunately!

[formalist2]

I actually bought mine (Pictures)on Amazon. I believe it was reissued fairly recently.

[Matt]

Jack's Paistes on Metheny's 80/81 are great. Brian Blade's cymbals always sound great. Have you heard them on John Patitucci's Songs, Stories, and Spirituals?

[WRAceves]

Such a big area. I always love the cymbal sounds of Motian, DeJohnette, Lewis Nash, Susie Ibarra, Kenny Wolleson, Jim Black and so many others, but here are some favorites I've been listening to recently:

Miles - Nefertiti
No explanation necessary.

Charles Lloyd - Hyperion With Higgins
So well recorded, and Billy's touch was always so beautiful.

George Marsh - Marshland
The clarity, definition and color of George's cymbals always impresses me on this one. Not available on CD as a single album, but New Albion released a compilation CD with half the tracks from this album and half from his John Abercrombie duo album DrumStrum.

Larry Goldings - Invitation to the Blues
I always like Bill's cymbals, but this one always stands out to me. His shoulder accents sound so sweet, dark and expressive.

Miniature - I Can't Put My Finger On It
Spizzes and Istanbuls as masterfully played by Joey B. As Gongman said, the JMT records sound so good, and this one, being a sax/cello/drums trio gives such space for Joey to do his thing.

Gerry Hemingway - Devil's Paradise
Another feel player with a beautiful touch- and another Istanbul player. Beautiful recording.

Bill Bruford's Earthworks - Random Acts of Happiness
Recorded in my hometown, and Bill's Paiste Trads ring with such clarity and darkness.

Charlie Haden - Montreal Tapes Vol.2
One of the most well recorded live jazz records I've ever heard. Ed Blackwell sounds so good, and that Paiste Novo kills me!

[Mister_Acrolite]

Jazz records:
Miles Davis - Four and More (Tony) - now part of a double CD set
Peter Bernstein - Earth Tones (Bill Stewart)

Rock records:
Van Halen - 5150 (Alex "I ride on crashes and crash on rides" Van Halen)
Any Police album (Stewart Copeland) - the guy may as well have invented the splash cymbal

Country album:
Gary Morris - Faded Blue (Eddie Bayers) - this has never been released on CD, which just KILLS me. There's a song called Bed of Roses where Eddie plays some of the most beautiful cymbal work I have EVER heard.


Mr. A.

[cw2603]

Yeah, most ECM albums have nice cymbal tones. I love 80/81 and Pictures (I bought mine recently).
Outside of ECM, the crashes just sing on Cobham's 'Spectrum'.
I wonder what they are?

[formalist2]

Oooo..forgot these two: Brian Blade's pies on Marianne Faithful's "Vagabond Ways" and Joe Henry's "Scar". Grooves that kill, to boot!

[humain]

I recently hear Brad Meldhau's "largo" with matt chamberlain on the drums and I have to say that his cymbals sound AMAZING!

After listening to it, I decided I definetly needed some 15" thin hats (or 16").

Go check my "Cymbal Wanted" thread for my 15" A hats if you can help me find some!

[bilkay]

Umm, every album Bill Bruford plays on. The standout for me, however, is King Crimson's album Red.

[Ptrick]

Brian on Joe Henry's "Scar"...YA! I forgot about that one...who knows how many effects were used on the drums/cymbals..that whole album is a great sonic landscape...Ornette Coleman in his own world, with Mehldau on piano...

A couple people mentioned Lloyd's "Hyperion with Higgins", and that one is DEFINETELY on my list.

One I forgot to mention in the first post is drummer Tom Cohen's release "Diggin' in, Diggin' out". FABULOUS sounding old K's. Tom has one of the best collection of old K's I've heard, and he plays two beautiful 22's on this one.

I dig Bill Stewarts sound a lot, although I think his earlier stuff is a bit better cymbal wise (before the Z' prototypes and majorly cracked old K's).

The one I dig the most is Kevin Hays "El Matador". Same dark, defined, trashy Bill sound, but fuller and more expansive (less 'cruchy'). I think this was before he started hammering the crap out of his old K's.

Just about anything with Billy Drummond is a lesson in old K's and Gretsch Round Badge playing. He has all types of old K's he uses..thin ones, med, heavy...dry, trashy, etc...I think cymbalguy has seen many of them. I dig hearing all those different sounds with the same player.

Rodney Green has some killer old K's he records with (mixed in with some Bosphorus stuff). On Greg Osby's "St. Lewis Shoes", it looks as though he is using mostly old K's, and they sound great.

I mentioned Lenny White and "Griffith Park Collection" in my first post, and since that one is very hard to find, I figured I'd offer up another great example of his old K sound. If you dig trashy as hell old K's, check out Woody Shaw's "Blackstone Legacy". It was done shortly after Bitches Brew, and it is kind of an avant type approach to that type of music.

[135711]

Besides all the great sounding Tony "K" recordings and Elvin and anybody else that had or has one, I've liked for years that dark and strange cymbal that Charles Moffet used on the Ornette Coleman live at the Golden Circle recordings from the 60's. Don't know what it was. Don't know whether it was something he carried with him or just happened to be there at the club. If anybody knows his son maybe he could tell us. It was perfect in its own way for that particular trio.

[Ptrick]

Regarding the famed Roy Haynes Flat ride on "Now he sings, Now he sobs", I found out that it is MOST LIKELY an 18.

I found this in an old article with Chick Corea (Talking about Barry Altschul):
"We talked about the tuning of his drums, and I brought out the ride cymbal that Roy Haynes had used when we played together with Stan Getz. It was the first flat ride that Paiste ever made. I fell in love with that sound, so Roy gave me the cymbal, which he thought was kind of dull-sounding. To this day, that cymbal remains my favorite for a drummer to play in a trio setting. Barry Altschul used it in Circle, and Airto used it on the two Return To Forever
albums that he played drums on. In fact, I'm having Jeff Ballard play that cymbal in the current Origin group. Adam Cruz also played that cymbal in Origin, and he really started to dig it. It has a unique character that's totally different from where modern cymbal-making is going, which I think is loud and clangorous. This cymbal is wispy, with great attack, and it really leaves a lot of space open for soloists. The drummer gets all the effects he wants out of it, without covering things. When people talk about the great sound that Roy got on Now He Sings, Now He Sobs, the sound of that cymbal is a big part of it."

So then I found an article about Jeff Ballard that was done when he was with Corea, and it said he used an 18 Zildjian flat ride that they had made for Chick to match the cymbal Roy gave him.

[Ulrich]

Wow, you really like that cymbal on "live at the golden circle"? I must admit that I've always thought that this particular cymbal ruins an otherwise beautiful album. Maybe I have to give it a re-listen ;-)

[dark_energy]

hey Ptrick...thanks for the roy haynes flat ride info...
VERY informative! Where did you read this article?
Crap, now I have to go get a copy of "Circle" to check out how Barry Altschule played that cymbal. I haven't listened to that recording in an age!
again thanks...
dark energy

[RipVanWinkle]

Eliot Zigmund's ride on Pianism with Michel Petrucciani....beauty.

Rip

[dark_energy]

I just love how cymbal sounds are passed down thru musical time periods. Roy Haynes established the flat ride sound with Chick Corea and Stan Getz and then joined Gary Burtons band in the early 70's. Bob Moses took over from Roy in Gary's band and added his own interpretation of how the flat rides work in the music. (22" crashy flat rides and mini-cups) then Danny Gottlieb got all over the flat ride thing in the late 70's with Burton's band and then with the early Pat Metheny Group. He went nuts using two 22" paiste 602 flat rides (one medium, one thin with rivets) plus one 20" Thin Zildjian flat ride and established the flat ride sound underneath Pat's signature guitar sound and THEN Paul Wertico continued the trend with Sound Creation dark flat rides and Signature flat rides and I also believe Antonio Sanchez is playing flat rides as well now in Pat's band.
That timeline for Paiste and Zildjian flat rides is too cool for school not to mention Jack DeJohnette incredible use of flat rides....and that's yet another story!!!
dark energy

[Gabriel]

Oh yeah, Billy Drummond is like a masterclass on getting a beautiful sound always, no matter what cymbals he's using.
Billy Higgins, as many have mentioned, had that beautiful, smoky, legato sound. There's a record by Harold Land called "Promised Land" (actually one of the latest things Billy did before passing.) The recording makes you feel like you're right there with them, and Billy's ride cymbals are as beautiful as always, using what sounds like an old, very riveted 602 as his main ride and very probably an old K as a left sider. Anybody heard it? Billy had plenty of gorgeous cymbals, I once saw him playing an early Spizz (with the huge, white SPIZZ logo underneath); also used quite a few old A's and those 602's.
Paul Wertico has done some serious cymbal records too, making those Paistes shine through.
Oh, and I just love Billy Hart's cymbal sound. He's one of the very few drummers that you can instantly recognize, partly because of his trademark cymbal sound. I'm not really into his tuning choices, though.
Jeff Ballard sounds always great, too.

[Renato]

I love these threads......I always learn something.....

okay - On the Roy Haynes "Now He Sings/Now He Sobs" flatride. Definately an 18". First becuase of the article Ptrick mentioned. In fact - there was a Downbeat(or was it Jazztimes)with Chick and Roy on the cover and Chick is holding that flatride with a stick through it....it was an 18" in the pic.

Now here is my second reason for saying it was an 18"....my teacher at Berklee(one of them)was Skip hadden...and he had a flatride he was given by Chick Corea which chick told him was the sister to the flatride from "now he sings now he sobs"...it was made by Paiste to emulate the first one - and it was almost as old...it was an 18"

Also - when I visited the Zildjian factory - the guy who did our tour - Not Lennie - I can't remember his name...he told me Chick Corea had been there a week earlier and had brought THE paiste flatride from "now He Sings Now He SObs" for them to make a few replicas for him for his drummers. I saw some and played them - all 18". nice too.

cool - anyway - whatever the cymbal was - it sure made me love flatrides....I remember realizing that I could "hear" that it was a flatride......it was revelatory!!!

okay for me my top 10 cymbal albums - in no particular order....

1 - Miles Davis - "Nefertiti"....this record changed my life - I transferred schools because of it, changed drum sets, and cymbals, moved across the country...Tony's cymbal sound was unlike anything I had ever heard. Mind Blowing...still after many years!!!!

2 -John Coltrane - "Crescent" - the best recorded of the Coltrane quartet dates(in my opinion...maybe it's the tunes - I don't know - but Elvin's sound is perfect....I can't get over it -a strong stick sound and wash is very beautiful...the perfect cymbal sound.

3 - Charles LLoyd - Hyperion With Higgins. You cats know I love this record.....cymbals are supposed to sound like this...Higg is the master cymbal player!!! The first track - when Billy comes in....it's like..."ahhhhhh" - nuthin' but buttah!!!!

4 - Freddie Hubbard - Red Clay. Man Lenny White is sick.. He show on this record that he has that amazing light touch....the uptempos are sick on this record!!!

5 - Bobo Stenson Trio - War Orphans. Jon Christensen shows how many tones one can derive from cymbals. He is - in my opinion one of the great cymbal players of our time....this trio is also great on their opus magnus......"Serenity"....and i can't waint for the new record to come out which featues Paul Motian in his place.

6 - Tomasz Stanko - Balladyna - besides absolutely loving Tomasz's trumpet playing which is the perfect mix of free and trad....Edward Vesala(well known for his "sound and fury" groups....sounds amazing on here....getting beautiful sounds from his cymbals......sounds like a 22 soundcreation dark.....he plays it perfect...check it out!!!

7 - Larry Goldings - Awareness - this is an amzing date with Larry Grenadier and Paul Motian - it is a piano date(not Larry's usual B3 vibe...(BTW - the record is "Intimacy of the Blues" that was mentioned earlier...which is amazing!!!)anyway - this sessions really shows the Keith Jarrett influence on Larry(he studied with keith)and Paul sounds so good on here....brushes or sticks - a true original!!!!!

8 - Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life - Bob Moses. he has such an amazing way with the drums....this record really shows his virtuosity(as well as pat's and jaco's)....He also sounds amazing on Bruno Raberg's "Orbis"....check it out on Itunes....different sound.....playing with twigs now - 10" hats - huge drumset...still amazing!

9 - Bill Stewart - Telepathy ....this record is a modern masterpiece....great playing, great recording, great compositions....cool record cover. PLus Bill sounds perfect....and his cymbals....tis guy is amazing!!!! HE reall has that transparent cymbal sound that he talks about.....I love it!

10 - Bill Evans - At the Montreux Jazz Festival.....amazing high point in Bill Evan's career...Eddie Gomez sounds amazing here....and Jack is smokin'!!!!He is playing a couple old K's and hats and a Hollywood Meazzi kit...his sound on Nardis is perfect.

cool.....honorable mentions...

Art Blakey....Buhaina sounds good on all his records...But "ugetsu", "Free For All" and "Indestructible" are the best ones for that big old K sound and gretsch binge!!!

Billy Drummond - another modern cymbal player who has it down...."Dubai" sounds great!!! good tunes, great playing and great cybal sound!!!!

Brian Blade - YaYA3...perfect jazz record!

Clarence Penn...man Ptrick is right - this guy makes me want ot buy Zildjians!!

Also - Orrin Evans trio - Blessed Ones...nasheet Waits splits duties with Edgar Batman...both sound amazing on this record!!!!...Edgar and Nasheet are the poo!

[CHADMIN]

Whoa Edgar Bateman...! gotta check out that Evans record to hear Bateman...I haven't heard him in years...BAD cat...all you Bob Moses fans should know who Edgar is, is you say you know all about Bob Moses. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[WRAceves]

[ QUOTE ]
..(BTW - the record is "Intimacy of the Blues" that was mentioned earlier...which is amazing!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. My bad. Great list!

[Matt]

Dark energy, do you know what Danny Gottlieb's entire cymbal set-up was when he played with the PMG?

[Renato]

there was actually an article by Danny Gottlieb in Modern drummer in the last few months and he talks extensively about it...I'll go see and post later.

Yeah man.....Moses....DRum Wisdom is a hip book...it's like the "Effortless Mastery" of drumbooks. So everybody check out both books - in drumwisdom....Moses says Roy Haynes and Edgar Bateman are the cats him....but he also said all his hits are now dedicated to Elvin from here on out....

Yeah....bateman....someone please hook me up with a thick list of Edgar Bateman stuff to dig....

[CHADMIN]

Ren...bateman discog:

http://www.jazzdiscography.com/Artists/Bateman/eb-disc.htm

[greencymbalman]

Billy Drummond. on the Donny McCaslin album,"Exile And Discovery". On, Naxos Jazz, 86014-2.

Buddy Rich. On the cd, "Playtime". On, Charly Records, LE JAZZ CD 47.

Joe Strasser, with Sam Yahel. "Searchin'". On, Naxos Jazz, 86004-2.

Martin Drew, leading his quartet on, "Got A Match ?". On, Jazzizit Records. JITCD 9919.

Krzystof Zawadzki, with the band, Walk Away, who are backing the singer, Urszula Dudziak, on the cd "Magic Lady". On, Time Out Records. 7008-2.

Kenwood Dennard, with Howard Johnson and Gravity. Tahe cd is called "Right Now". Verve Records. 537 801-2.

Mark Fletcher, with Phil Miller and In Cahoots. The cd is "All That". On, Cuneiform Records. Rune 181.

Mel Lewis, with Jimmy Witherspoon. "Aint Nobody's Business". On, The Blues Collection. BLU NC O24.

Danny D'Imperio, backing singer Gail Wynters. "My Shining Hour". Naxos Jazz. 86027-2.

Phil Collins Big Band. "A Hot Night In Paris". wea. 398427221-2.

Nice cymbal sounds all the way. Ten recordings there, from my collection, could easily be a hundred and ten.


Chris.

[Ptrick]

Gabriel wrote:

"Billy Higgins, as many have mentioned, had that beautiful, smoky, legato sound. There's a record by Harold Land called "Promised Land" (actually one of the latest things Billy did before passing.)"

Thanks for the heads up on that one! I really dig Billy, and his sound seemed to change a bit on these last few recordings he did (Hyperion, Scofield's "Works for me"). The last album he recorded was recently released. It is with Charles Lloyd, and it is called "Which Way is East". It is a collection of songs written by Billy and Charles, recorded in Charles home studio...they do a bunch of duets on the album...great, eclectic stuff..Billy even sings and plays guitar on this one. Amazing drum and cymbal sound on that one too.

[135711]

Chad! Thanks for the link to the Edgar Bateman stuff. My wife has some of the Walt Dickerson and I know Mike J. has to have more. Back in the early 80's C Sharpe mentioned him to me a couple of times at jam sessions and remarked about what a great drummer he is. In 1999 they had the first Indy Jazz fest and I got to fill in for some other drummers at the alternative site in town because they all got gigs at the main event. Anyway, we played a set one night and I went over and sat down and a woman started talking to me and introduced her companion who turned out to be Edgar Bateman! He'd come in to town because it turned out he used to work some with the late Jimmy Coe and Mr. Bateman said that his time in Indy back in the 50's were some very happy years. I naturally offered him the drum chair and he went up and played and took about a 20 minute drum solo! Such an imagination! Needless to say, I was thrilled that night. Saw him the next day setting in downtown at the main event. He sure didn't sound like anybody else.
Also to Ulrich. I've been gone today and just got back from a gig a little bit ago.... On those Golden Circle sides with Charles Moffett and that "out" cymbal. Man, I do like that. I think that strange voice on that recording was almost like adding some kind of drone instrument or something. All subjective. I love pretty sounding cymbals. I love flat rides the way Roy Haynes and others play them. Although, I'd rather listen to a drummer much better than myself play a good flat ride. I like more overtones and wash, although I'd be a hell of lot more honest in my ride patterns using a flat ride though! :~)

[dark_energy]

[ QUOTE ]
Dark energy, do you know what Danny Gottlieb's entire cymbal set-up was when he played with the PMG?

[/ QUOTE ]
hi matt...it's been a long time since my Berklee daze, but I used to see Danny with the early PMG group all the time at the Jazz Workshop in Boston and I took some lessons with him too. He was playing those Ludwig clear Vistalite drums in jazz sizes (18" bass/2x 12" toms/14" floor)and had an incredible amount of Paiste cymbals. I clearly remember the two big 22" 602 flat rides(thin/medium)the one 20" zildjian flat ride and an assortment of paiste crashes, probably 602 or 2002.The hi-hats I can't remember but if you can find a copy of the "orange" paiste cymbal-setups book from the late 70's you can find danny's setup pretty closely. It was followed by the "blue" setups book which has changes in Danny's cymbal choices. I was mainly turned on when Danny joined the Gary Burton group with S. Swallow/E. Weber/Metheny/Burton. His use of the big flat rides was the precurser to the whole PMG group cymbal sound to this day.
I clearly remember when the PMG group used to close thier shows with "Louie, Louie" and Danny did his best Keith Moon impersonation with drums and cymbals and stands flying all over the room. I can't imagine kicking my vintage jazz vistalites and my 602 flat rides into the floor today!!!
dark energy

[Matt]

Thanks for the information dark energy. It is awesome! But I have always wondered how he set up all his cymbals. They all blend so well together. I read that he used a Sound Creation china, but he also said that the Zildjian flat was his main ride. Was his main ride accually a 20" and not a 22"? I can see a little from the pictures in my Travels CD cover, but it is pretty small. Too bad I don't have that one on vinyl. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[eyeball_kid]

I dig the sound Tony Williams gets on Miles Smiles.

[DaveKorey]

DANNY GOTTLIEB'S EQUIPMENT

"I have quite a few different drums and cymbals that I'm constantly
combining, changing, and adding to as different situations demand,"
according to Danny Gottlieb. "ln addition to acoustic drums and cymbals I
also have quite a bit of electronic equipment." [See the accompanying Pro
Session on page 56 for more information on this equipment.]
Danny's six sets of acoustic drums include two sets of Ludwig, which he
endorses, two sets of handmade Eames drums, and two sets of Yamaha Re-
cording Series drums. The Ludwig sets include14 x 20, 16 x18, 16 x 22, and
16x24 bass drums; 6x8, 7xlO, 8x12, 9xlO, 9x13, 11x12, 12x13,
13x14, 14x14, 16x16, and 16x18 toms; and 5x14 hand-hammered
chrome, 5 x 14 hand-hammered bronze, 8 x 14 coliseum and 8 x 14 coliseum
slotted snare drums. The Eames sets, all of which have birch drum shells and
Ludwig hardware, are of two types, one nine-ply Califomia red finish and one
12-ply blonde finish. The nine-ply set has a 14 x 24 bass drum; and 9x 8,
10x 10, 11 x12, 12 x13, 14 x14, 16 x16, and 16 x18 toms. The12-ply set has
14 x18,14 x 20, and14 x 22 bass drums; and 61h x10, 8 x12,10 x 10,10 x14,
12 x 12, 12 x16, 16 x15, 16 x16, and 16 x 18 toms. The snares, which are all
15-ply, are 5 x14, 51/2 x14, 7x14, and 8x14. The Yamaha sets are blonde
and sunburst.
Danny's cymbals are all Paiste, which he also endorses, and his collection
amounts to more than 50. Included among them are: a heavy 14-inch hi-hat,
Sound Edge14-inch hi-hat, 14-inch Sound Creation hi-hat with medium top
and heavy bottom, and a14-inch black Color Sound hi-hat; 20-, 22-, and 24-
inch medium and thin flat ride 602s, 22-inch heavy ride 2002, 22-inch bell ride
Sound Creation and 22-inch dark ride Sound Creation; 16 inch paper thin 602
crash, 22-inch paper thin 602 crash, 17-, 18-, and 20-inch medium 2002
crash, 16-inch Sound Creation New Dimension crash, 14-, 16-, 18-, 19-, 20-,
and 24-inch Rude crash; 16- and 18-inch China, 18- and 20 inch Sound
Creation China, 16-, 20, and 24-inch 2002 China, 18-inch Ride China, 16-,
20-, and 22-inch 2002 Novo China, 15-, 18-, and 20-inch 505 China; 11-inch
602 splash, 6-, 10-, and12-inch 2002 splash, 6, 10-, and 12-inch 505 splash;
8-, 10-, and13-inch heavy and regular Bell, and a10-inch 2002 Bell. Plus a set
of Sound Creation gongs.
So much for acoustic sounds. Electronically speaking, Danny uses
Dynacord Electronic Drums, which he endorses, Simmons SDS-7s, a Cooper
Sound Chest II, and an Oberheim DMX drum machine, and various
combinations of the following : Carvin 1686 board, Lexicon 200 Digital reverb,
MXR Digital Delay, lbanez Digital Delay, Valley People Dyna-mite noise gate,
a Yamaha Dx-7 synthesizer a Casio Cz 101 synthesizer. And a rack of New
Products (distributed by Europa Tech.) that includes a Quantec Room
Simulator Window Recorder, and Programmable Parametric Equalizer.
Regarding sticks and heads Gottlieb's list is equally lengthy. He uses
Ludwig, Vic Firh, Calato, and colored Hot Sticks in three different sizes, 58,
25, and 35. His drum head choices include Ludwig Silver Dots, Ludwig
Clears, Remo clear Ambassadors, Remo clear Diplomats and coated heads
for brushes.

Peace
Dave Korey

[Matt]

Thanks Dave,
That info is great, but it is from the late 80's. I am just looking for the setup he had with the Metheny Group. There are so few pictures of him from that era. I have found only 2 online, but they are not focused enough, the cymbas are all blured together.

[steverose]

This is a GREAT thread!!!

So many of my favorites have been mentioned, i.e. Tony on Nefertiti, Roy Haynes Flat Ride

ANY Tony from the 60's, Jack DeJohnette in the 70's/early 80's

Anybody mention Gadd's cymbal sound on Chick Corea 'Friends'?
They were supposedly some old K's given to him by Art Blakey. Probably my all time favorite hats.

More modern- Billy Drummond Quintet 'Native Colours'
Leon Parker's 2 contrasting sounds- Flat/Dark trashy concept
Bill Stewart- earlier Larry Goldings or Scofield stuff
Adam Cruz on Chick Corea Origin Live (get the box set!)
ANYTHING with Brian Blade

ALSO- anyone remember Donald Bailey? I remember hearing some stuff with him on it in the 80s. It was a Japanese piano trio and his cymbal sounds were unique and KILLIN!!!

[WRAceves]

[ QUOTE ]

ALSO- anyone remember Donald Bailey? I remember hearing some stuff with him on it in the 80s. It was a Japanese piano trio and his cymbal sounds were unique and KILLIN!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yes! There was a time when I was listening to Jimmy Smith's Blue Note sides steadily, getting a steady diet of "Duck".
Duck lives in San Francisco, and I used to see him regularly when he and I were alternating nights at Savanna Jazz in the Mission District. He's still smokin'!

[steverose]

Glad to hear Donald is alive and well! Undersung cat, in my opinion. I believe Gadd lifted that little use of the hihat on the upbeats for swing/shuffles from Donald. Anyone care to list their favorite recordings w/Bailey, Jimmy Smith or otherwise?

The japanese pianist he had played with was called Tsuyoshi Yamamoto. I found some of his stuff on eBay but it's way expensive!

[Tremendo171]

Hello to all cymbalholics!
It´s a great pleasure to be back here again!

I love these kind of topic too!
5 of my all time favs:

- Ed Blackwell´s cymbals on ECMs albums, "Playing" and "Old & New Dreams". That pristine Blackwell´s 602s (and 2002s!) sound.
- Jack DeJohnette cymbals on ECM´s "Special Edition". Well, that SC ride and china...
- Paul Motian´s on "Muthspiel, Peacock, Muthspiel, Motian". The blend of the Dark Ride with that riveted old A missing a chunk is perfect.
- Al Foster on Lovano´s "Celebrating Sinatra". I love their duet on "Chicago" and that "thinned down" SCDR sound Al Foster used to play!
- Mel Lewis cymbals, on the live album of the TJ/ML Orchestra "Basle, 1969". I love when Mel remains driving the orchestra on that old chyna type cymbal.

[Edgar_III]

Hello all. This is Edgar Bateman III. Son of the man you speak about. I just want to thank you all for the kind words you have spoken here. It means more than you can imagine. The reality is that dad is still playing. We are working to finally do his first recording as a leader as soon as possible. Unfortunately, he is not working as much as he would like lately. However, I always tell him that he could never know how many people he has touched and in how many ways. That story from the Indy Fest is a prime example. He is so humble and focussed on nothing but the music that he doesnt even realize.

Thanks again.
Edgar III

[135711]

It is very nice to hear that your Father is doing a recording under his own name. Please let us know when it is out and where it is available from. Sure their are some of us that would very much like to purchase it. Peace

[formalist2]

Another one: Miles 'Live in Tokyo' w/ Sam Rivers instead of Wayne. Tony's really tasteful and somewhat restrained on this one and the ride sounds particularly good.